National service

I can't find any link to it or mention of it on a news site but apparently David Cameron MP has commented on National Service and how he'd like to introduce a compulsory 4 months for a certain age group.

I'm sure it's been discussed on here before, but wonder what we all think?

Would a good stint of beasting and prodding with a pace stick transform our little binge drinking scroats into responsible hard working citizens or should it be a mix of community based schemes, like getting rid of all the grafitti everywhere and scraping chewing gum from the pavements(!), helping the blue rinsed brigade etc...

Just wondering how we feel, is it viable financially...would we want thousands of unenthusiatic kids lowering the standards and possibly making the Armed Forces weaker?

Or should we ship them all off to a remote island???
its bringing back national service and other such things that will sway the support back to the conservatives and hopefully oust labour. its a small step in returning us back to a prouder nation, but also an essential one.

i'm all in support, what do others think? is 4 months enough?
"Binge drinking scroats" - isn't that what we used to refer to generically as INFANTRY
Again and again and again the spectre of NS raises it's ugle head in knee-jerk politics. It will not work. The very mention of beasting and pace sticks explains why. The scroats do not want to be there. The slightest attempt at discipline will be seized upon as Deepcut times ten. Stripey shouts at them - they shout back 'fcuk off'. Whatchagonnado? The adage about making horse sorry it will not drink water does not apply. The journos would be all over the scene. Mum and dad watching for a payout. Human righters all looking to fast track their moaning. So - Mr Cameron - thanks but no thanks. Anyway, why should perfectly good serious soldiers have to waste their time and labour doing such rubbish work. There is absolutely no way of doing today what was done to me in the early 50s and I never really seriously attracted the drill sgts attention so had it relatively easy. Where is the place for these unwashed. idle, amoral oxygen thieves.
I know that in this liberal society ( :evil: ), journos and ambulance chasers would be all over that waiting for a story or rather a big payout... then does that not stear the topic towards a community scheme?

If kids don't acheive ceratin grades, go onto college or Uni (wherever you put the benchmark) - they could go onto do worthwhile jobs... like I said, cleaning up cities, countryside, work with ederly, disabled.

If they become part of society /community and feel value and respected then maybe they'll get off the might even intergrate various classes and races.
I think it is a bad idea. Why must the Army be used to sort out a social problem? All it will do is create a massive training requirement committment on top of the overload of tasks already being undertaken. Surely a move to National service must be based upon sound national defence reasons and no defence challenge is going to be met with a high rotation of chavs in green doing 4 months service.

What will you achieve in 17 weeks? 10 weeks basic trg followed by, lets say 6 weeks of some sort of simple specialist trg and one week of employment. Again what is the purpose?
we're not saying that the army should be used to slove society's problems, but a bit of discipline and drive should be something that should be drilled into todays scrotes to stop tommorows britain going down the pan. apart from being discovered on pop idol, what else is there for them?
Birdie, I agree.

4 months is nothing and a year..... train them up to do what in that period??

But the Army is always looked at as it does instill discipline, teamwork, commitment, a direct and professional manner that civvie street finds hard to duplicate. (Although many schemes / programmes do work they often have ex-Forces leading them).

Take that 'Bad Lads' programme, for all it's faults, the main thing I got from watching it was the blokes turning round and saying "I needed that" or "This sorted me out rather than prison". I've seen that show and similar ones in the States, where these kids come out better individuals.

It doesn't have to be 1950's style service, but a mix of that training and discipline with other factors...we send our kids to school to be educated, if that does not give them manners, respects and other qualities then another 'education' should follow that.
4 months is way too short. Needs to be a full year with the option of doing some form of civil alternative.

It has it's pros and cons. It would lower the overall professionalism of the armed forces, unless it was split to keep the two seperate but on the other hand it does tend to have a positive effect on the 'yoof'. Doesn't have to be hard discipline, the simple change of lifestyle to being told when to get up, what to do and given a set of rules to keep, not to mention the whole teamwork, camaraderie thing has from what i've seen here in Norway tended to have a beneficial effect for society as a whole.

On the other hand Britain is not Norway and what works for one may not necessarily work for the other.
National service does not necessarily mean military service. It could be one option - 4 months would simply be work experience - but NS could certainly be used to provide labour for useful projects, such as graffiti removal, conservation projects and the like, or other socially useful areas - delivering meals on wheels, for example.

Apart from discipline, perhaps the greater lesson NS taught 18 year-olds was about living with others from different backgrounds, and living away from home. For NS to work today, it would be essential that the yoofs carry out their obligation away from their usual stamping grounds. So, creatures from London and the south would find themselves working and living in Scotland, for example. Simple barrack style accommodation, pocket money wages and a structured rule system would apply. I would have thought that ex-mil pers would be ideal management material. Yoof who think they needn't do it can be sent to do relief work in the Third World, or a spot of landscape gardening in the Falklands.
Treadstone81 said:
I think its a good thing. I would have done it and can think of countless people that it would have done some good.

A few people I went to Uni with had to do National Service for their country, a bunch chaps from Cyrpus as I recall.
Having just spent a little time there and worked closely with them, I can tell you that the soldiers on both sides of the Cyprus problem HATE being there, they just want to do their time and go and have a normal life. They get treated like sh1te and paid badly. The soldiers in the south are still lazy, idle sh1tes when they leave. In the north, it's slightly different as they have the fear of God put into them - believe that the Turks can still shoot people for anything really.

In that country, National Service has not worked, even though they are "defending" their homeland (in the loosestpossible sense). In the UK, it would not work either -as has already been mentioned, the scrots would require so much attentions that we would not be able to do anything else, yu couldn;t trust them with anything, let alone weapons and ammunition (they might need it for their real jobs) and why should we, the Army, look after the Govt's fcuk ups - it was the policies of all Governments of the last couple of decades, the degrading of public standards and the tree hugging that has been going in in every aspect of life that has made these scrots the way they are. Not our problem.

The Govt needs to let us fight wars and they could waste some more of the huge Social Services budget (Social Protection £146Billion(Includes spending on general public services; recreation, culture, media and sport; international co-operation and development; public service pensions; plus spending yet to be allocated and some accounting adjustments)and Personal Social Services £23Billion) to fund these hair brained schemes.

Rant over
A friend of mine (who is German) told me that in the 1980's, she HAD to do 2 years National Service before College, but, they had a choice between the armed forces or community schemes. She became a kindergarten assistant, one of her friends became a litter picker, another a dustman!

Labour tried compulsory work schemes like this in the 70's to get the mongs off the dole - it didn't work properly then (open to incredible abuse by employers) and it certainly won't work now.
Let's go for it , provided that it's not based on military service. A professional army doesn't need the retrograde step of a huge influx of untrained, untrainable wasters.

It also needs to be for more than 4 months, that time scale doesn't give much space for induction, learning the role they're supposed to be fulfilling and that'll take a while, and disposal. Sorry, dismounting.

So let's extend it to at least a year.
goatbagthedruid:- look after the Govt's fcuk ups

They're societies' fcuk ups, really, or certainly can't be pinned on one Government.

Sh1tty little kids have always been around since the introduction of drugs, movies, music, the drinks industry...over the last 40 or so years it's got worse and will always be around but we can lessen their impact by doing something about it.
Many countries have cultures which keep their kids in line - religion, families, work.... we have a generation where the kids have nothing but playstations, mobiles, hip hop and a bag of skunk!


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Private_Pike said:
"Binge drinking scroats" - isn't that what we used to refer to generically as INFANTRY
Must not bite, must not bite . . . . . :evil:
Though I do accept the binge-drinking bit . . . :roll:
ORC is right, when we did have NS, people where used to discipline, they were subject to it at home, at school, and in the street. Modern society sees discipline as an infringement of the individuals human rights. As bad as things are now, I can only see them getting worse before they get better, and God alone knows what will have to happen before society turns itself around. Whatever the answer is, its not conscription.
Let see, what is it in for the Army? Wasting time and money on training waster that can not be deploy for any ops. Aren't the manpower problem back enough already? And how are you going to motivate those kids on the National Service, they aren't training for any purpose but just for the stake of being shout and push around. And how about the labour shortage in the economy right now? Aren't we already relie on immigratant to make up our work force.

No it is a bad idea, unless we train those kids into real soldier and send them out to war zone for 2 years.
Perhaps offenders when sentenced could be offered a choice of doing either a stint in a normal prison OR a stint of equal length in a military training establishment on the lines of Bad Lads Army. It did seem to gel most of them together and taught them the meaning of thinking about others before themselves. I do not think that volunteer soldiers should be made to serve alongside people who are forced into the Army.
"A friend of mine (who is German) told me that in the 1980's, she HAD to do 2 years National Service before College, but, they had a choice between the armed forces or community schemes. She became a kindergarten assistant, one of her friends became a litter picker, another a dustman!"

B0ll0x. Conscription only ever applied to males. Unless she was from dunkledeutschland of course.

Conscription is still alive and kicking and is seen as an excellent and cheap resource.

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