National Service

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Taffd, Jun 6, 2012.

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  1. The discussions on the Jubilee stewarding thread prompted some thinking about 'welfare to work' and such.

    Are there any thoughts on the setting up of some sort of national service. Not in the sense of military service, but rather as a series of nationalised industries, with proper rates of pay, that could take over from the majority of the benefit system.

    School leavers, for example, if they didn't have their chosen job to enter, could automatically be hired.

    Anybody leaving a job/getting made redundant could automatically transfer.

    It could involve enhanced training opportunities to enable transition to other employment.

    I haven't given it a lot of thought and haven't even started looking for problems, but I thought it might be a subject for discussion.

    What sort of industries would be suitable?

    Should there be a minimum compulsory length of service, such that everybody is seen to give something to the community?

    Who should be exempt?

    Or is it a non-starter?
  2. It would be a good thing to see.

    National Service isn't neccesarily bad, but I feel the advance in 'kill tech' and changes in both the wars we face, and the civvies view of them, means that we wont be calling up young lads to wear the Green or Blue any time soon...

    A National Service set up where by youngster help out in hospitals (Germany do this for pacifists, as do the Americans with voluntary 'Cndy Stripers'), after that cleaning the streets of litter and graffiti, conservation work etc would be a good start.

    I know I did plenty of volunteer service to get my DofE, and my school made us all do a terms worth of wednesdays on 'service'.

    Maybe taht could be the way ahead. It doesn't have to be years of your life.

    That said, unemployed could be 'state employed' instead of hte dole. Minimum wage for an hours good work.
  3. Potentially a sound idea. However, I would take the framework that the Germans used up until last year. There's a mix of options for the range of ''conscripts'' to opt for. As was heavily debated at the time of the demise of National Service in this country, not all young men are suited for military service so that element would need to be re hashed.

    With those born in 1995 now subject to the compulsory school leaving age of 18 (unless they are to become indentured apprentices or enter military service), and with the rise in tuition fees looking to cull the number of University applications, it look like that there could be an argument that some sort of ''civil work program'' might have legs.

    However, politically, it would never happen.
  4. Got me eartalked off by a cabbie once.

    'farkin National Service, thats what the caaaa'nts need, gerrum in the faaarkin army!!'

    My assertion that the ranks of volunteers, (young girls and boys who WANT to join and strive to meet the requirements) shouldnt be sullied with the by product of and detritus of a failing state and archaic class system held no water with him.

    We then discussed the time he had a cheeky butchers of Carol Vordemans **** as she climbed out of his cab.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. What is the strange British obsession with National Service as a panacea for many modern social ills? Peacetime conscription existed for about 15 years, ended over 50 years ago, and is actually deeply 'un-British' - so what's the fascination?
  6. It isn't National Service that people want... just some sort of injection of the 'to put others first' mentality.
  7. I'm not thinking about national service in the military sense, and not necessarily in the 'do something for the community' sense.

    It was more along the lines of government owned industries, that could do necessary jobs, but that didn't conflict too much with private industry.

    That people could move in and out of, rather than be on the dole.

    Is it financially viable?

    What industries?

    Eg. What about ensuring that there's enough quality housing for everybody in the UK?

    What about repairing/renewing all the sewers to stop wastage?

    What about repairing all the roads?

    What about demolishing all derelict buildings?

    What about making all beaches pristine/cleaning all canals/rivers?

    What about high speed interweb for the whole of the UK?
  8. Aren't those people currently doing them jobs facing cuts already?
  9. Varstly expensive and would really hurt a lot of private chancers/companies.
    But getting shit that needs doing **** a national care service would be cheaper and more effective than crappy private companies.
  10. Somebody beat me to it. The Germans had a system of national service until last year not unlike the OP's suggestion. Not sure why it was abandoned but I am sure there are some privy to german political developments on here.

    I would be in favour of it.
  11. The German system exposed the over reliance, on the young to do grunt work in nursing homes and hospitals.

    Prior to March 39 A volunteer army seemed a good idea, post 1962 the army discovered how many volunteers were actually needed.
  12. Hmm .... the few young people I know are frighteningly idealistic and keen to 'make a difference'. Unlike some here I don't believe they are obsessed with X-Factor, etc, etc. The one's who are - the self centred, celebrity fixated, three kids by 25 brigade - are not going to be changed by 12 months emptying bedpans in NHS hospitals.
  13. Grumblegrunt

    Grumblegrunt LE Book Reviewer

    I just read an article on a guy touring the states who says there is a growing call from veterans for the draught to be reintroduced because of the way if focuses young minds and gives them discipline and a sense of belonging - or something like that.
  14. Also the fact that "nice" people kids may be in the front line limits the ability of presidents to start wars.
    that is a feature not a bug.
    The loundest pro war hawks in bushes cabinet had a note from matron when the exciting fun packed free adventure gap year in vietnam was on offer.
    Their sons and daughters werent going to discover the exotic nightlife in baghdad or go hill cilimbing in afgahistan either.
    Tony "blood price" blair might not been as keen if his kids were in harms way ( not sure he might really hate them :)"
  15. The killer for the German system was that the 'community service' bit was a by-product of the 'military service'. If you saw a German soldier (in Germany) in OG combats and not Flecktarn he was doing his conscription service up until recently. I remember being on the base at Augustdorf (near Sennelager) where the Conscripts did their Panzer training and another base I can't remember on the old IGB, the convoys stopped there on route to Drawsko Pomorski. There was a conscript CBRN Regiment there.

    Basically if you didn't fancy military service, it wasn't a problem. You ended up doing something else worthwhile.

    If we had a conscript army, chacnes are we'd do what the French did... and not use them.

    Funnily enough, talking to a ex-pat/married to a Boxhead lad the other day he was saying that since the collaps of the conscription in Germany the Technisches HilfsWerk were turning people away (soemthing they'd not really done prior even with the benefit of being in receipt of conscripts) and had vastily expanded its THW-Jugend organisation for 17 -18 year olds.

    THW Jugend is basically the ACF to the THW. It is NOT part of the THW, but wear the uniform, gets training support and 'borrows' the Identity. There were concerns about having a state run... can't see why.

    Anyway, at the moment the volunteer fire crews and THW etc are getting a good volunteer response from the Youth. Who still want to serve, and know the future generations have served.

    Let's be honest if we're going to keep kids in school till their 18 we might as well make it worthwhile them being there... the teachers sure as fcuk aren't.