National Rail Strike

Do you support the Rail Strike?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 15.4%
  • No

    Votes: 119 70.4%
  • Can't be bothered

    Votes: 24 14.2%

  • Total voters
    169

2458Flid

Clanker
You do not have a right to a job,
To an extant you do, depending on the terms of a) your recruitment, b) your contract & c) your conduct: two examples being the military - contracted for x years, or the Civil Service* - once 'established' (ie finished probation) contracted to pension age (was 60, now a movable feast between 66 and 68)
The fact than someone else might be cheaper isn't grounds for getting rid of you. (see P&O) If, for a variety of reasons, your job no longer exists, then the employer has to pay redundancy
(* I believe other parts of the public sector are similar)
 
To an extant you do, depending on the terms of a) your recruitment, b) your contract & c) your conduct: two examples being the military - contracted for x years, or the Civil Service* - once 'established' (ie finished probation) contracted to pension age (was 60, now a movable feast between 66 and 68)
The fact than someone else might be cheaper isn't grounds for getting rid of you. (see P&O) If, for a variety of reasons, your job no longer exists, then the employer has to pay redundancy
(* I believe other parts of the public sector are similar)
Even then contract can be terminated, either by mutual consent (PVR, Signing off) or by a sackable offence, or redundancy (Options for change) if your job is no longer required. You still don't have a right to that job, you or your employer can terminate your contract.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
In the Speccy:


Both the right to vote and the right to strike have taken a pounding in recent years. Many on the left, including current Labour leader Keir Starmer, threatened to do grave harm to the right to vote with their plans to void the EU referendum result and force us all to vote again. And now Conservative ministers are whispering about undermining the right to strike.

That’s enough. The vote and the right to withdraw labour are two of the most important freedoms people enjoy. Nothing should be done to undermine these hard-won liberties of modernity.


I agree with the above bold, and striking should not be made illegal IMHO. I don't think it will either, the current rumbles are no more than warning shots across the unions' bow. However, if unions seriously threaten the machinery of Government, that's what may happen.
I agree to the right to strike/withdraw labour being a fundamental right. I strongly disagree with strikes just ings a veneer of respectability to (not) hide political agitation.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Whereas I work for TfL and know that LU capacity is at about 75% during normal service, when it used to be in the high 90s (plus). I commute twice weekly on national rail, and can easily get a seat both ways, often with a table to myself most of the way. Nationally, rail use is still recovering.
I do a lot of case study work for a large US organisation. I probably should be as vague as that, for many reasons, but suffice to say in the transportation sector.

Mass transit (as they term it there) has taken an absolute shoeing.

75% at this stage post-pandemic is very good by comparison with some public transport operations across the Pond. Very good indeed.

A lot of the ‘build back’ strategies over there are accepting that what existed before won’t come back. Services need to change, often being demand-driven and using feeder stuff such as on-demand services (taxis, small buses) to get people onto main roads.

A ‘trackless pre-Beeching’, in effect.

One way or another, operators, operatives and passengers are having to accept change.
 
* For those that don't know, a DMU142 is a twin carriage, open plan train built as a commuter pacer. They rattled continuously and were prone to leaking in set weather. They were to trains what Crippen was to medicine!
Was that the same type as had square wheels that used to run between Darlington and Richmond in the late 60’s.
 
I agree to the right to strike/withdraw labour being a fundamental right. I strongly disagree with strikes just ings a veneer of respectability to (not) hide political agitation.
I’ve been involved in two strikes in my life, both as a member of the FBU. The first was an exercise in hubris. Conceived by a cabal in the union leadership and their useful idiots, particularly from a certain region, with an agenda. It was an Ill thought out disaster from start to finish. It ultimately led to the membership returning to work for worse conditions than those previously enjoyed.
The second had more justifiable origins but was still ultimately divisive and futile. The dispute* was eventually settled in the courts, a position which should have been the go to rather than the final option.
* Pension age discrimination.
Whilst collective bargaining and employee protection, including, ultimately the right to strike, have their place, the hierarchy of most trade unions in the UK are still heavy with old school self professed socialists who stubbornly adhere to ideals which were shown to be a busted flush in the last century and for whom interference in national and frequently, international politics is a constant aspiration.
 
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I agree to the right to strike/withdraw labour being a fundamental right. I strongly disagree with strikes just ings a veneer of respectability to (not) hide political agitation.
You keep saying it's all about politics.

Why?

Even Johnson hasn't mentioned that AFAICT.
 
You keep saying it's all about politics.

Why?

Even Johnson hasn't mentioned that AFAICT.
The RMT tweet below seems to suggest they think it is. :p

I'm not on Twitter and do not know if there is a way to determine who/when originally created that hashtag. I'm guessing someone else (non RMT) dreamt it up and the RMT have picked up on it.

Someone somewhere thinks it political. #ToryRailStrikes.
1655998717064.png
 

UKTAP

LE
You keep saying it's all about politics.

Why?

Even Johnson hasn't mentioned that AFAICT.
It is partially about making the Conservatives look incompetent, partially about rail workers extorting more pay through coercion of the public and partially about the unions maintaining power and income.

All very 1970s and all very unwelcome.

Easily solved by giving companies the right to instant dismissal of employees who strike.

**** the greedy cnuts. They get paid an awful lot for doing very little and are still demanding more.
 

Nemesis44UK

LE
Book Reviewer
Lynch was moaning on BBC this morning about the announcement of redundancies. I doubt that he will be among them. IMHO, he was determined to have his strike, regardless. I think he sees himself as the successor to Bob Crow or even Scargill.
The Bob Crow that was on £145,000 per year?
 

rgjbloke

On ROPS
On ROPs
I haven’t read every post on this thread but I saw this on Facebook and thought those who criticise the strikers should take a look at it.

“Just take a minute to read the post below, from a Rail Worker, that gives a different perspective to the hyperbole being flung out by HMG's client journalists...

Three years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise, two years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise. But this year they came to us with a 0% pay rise plus over 2500 redundancies, changes to terms and conditions. An increase from 28 weeks of nights to 39 weeks of nights. An increase from 32 weekends worked to 39 weekends worked.

Currently for a night shift we get time and a quarter, for a weekend turn we get time and a half. They wish to cut both of these to time and a tenth. So that’s a 15% pay cut on every night shift and a 40% pay cut on every weekend turn. But they want us to work more of them.

This is their modernisation they talk about. Not technology, we embrace technology and have seen more and more of it in recent years. They also wish to fire and re-hire the operative grades and bring them back under a new job title but on £9000 a year less.

They also want them to use their own vehicles to get to work sites, this when fuel is at its highest. They will also be pooled when currently they are part of the team.

The press are painting this to be about pay above all else. It is not. But now we’ve said sod them we are going to demand better. I wish everyone could see past the government controlled media smear.”


Given the same circumstances, would you go on strike?

I definitely would!
 

TamH70

MIA
I haven’t read every post on this thread but I saw this on Facebook and thought those who criticise the strikers should take a look at it.

“Just take a minute to read the post below, from a Rail Worker, that gives a different perspective to the hyperbole being flung out by HMG's client journalists...

Three years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise, two years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise. But this year they came to us with a 0% pay rise plus over 2500 redundancies, changes to terms and conditions. An increase from 28 weeks of nights to 39 weeks of nights. An increase from 32 weekends worked to 39 weekends worked.

Currently for a night shift we get time and a quarter, for a weekend turn we get time and a half. They wish to cut both of these to time and a tenth. So that’s a 15% pay cut on every night shift and a 40% pay cut on every weekend turn. But they want us to work more of them.

This is their modernisation they talk about. Not technology, we embrace technology and have seen more and more of it in recent years. They also wish to fire and re-hire the operative grades and bring them back under a new job title but on £9000 a year less.

They also want them to use their own vehicles to get to work sites, this when fuel is at its highest. They will also be pooled when currently they are part of the team.

The press are painting this to be about pay above all else. It is not. But now we’ve said sod them we are going to demand better. I wish everyone could see past the government controlled media smear.”


Given the same circumstances, would you go on strike?

I definitely would!

First two mistakes you made were in your Bolded comment, bud. But...

Government-controlled media smear? Complete and utter twaddle. Has one not read today's online papers? All of their columnists, virtually to a person, be they Grauniad or New Statesmen, are queuing up to felate that RMT personage like he's the second coming of Jesus Marx. I'm not including links because sod that for a game of soldiers, but it's easy enough to check that I'm not talking as much twaddle as the author of that post is.
 
It is partially about making the Conservatives look incompetent, partially about rail workers extorting more pay through coercion of the public and partially about the unions maintaining power and income.

All very 1970s and all very unwelcome.

Easily solved by giving companies the right to instant dismissal of employees who strike.

**** the greedy cnuts. They get paid an awful lot for doing very little and are still demanding more.
the right to Strike was very hard earned. It should not be disposed of easily.

And you've swallowed the Schapps line about them being paid "an awful lot".

They aren't.
 
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First two mistakes you made were in your Bolded comment, bud. But...

Government-controlled media smear? Complete and utter twaddle. Has one not read today's online papers? All of their columnists, virtually to a person, be they Grauniad or New Statesmen, are queuing up to felate that RMT personage like he's the second coming of Jesus Marx. I'm not including links because sod that for a game of soldiers, but it's easy enough to check that I'm not talking as much twaddle as the author of that post is.
So you CBA to research the claims, but dismiss them as "twaddle".

Smart.
 

TamH70

MIA
So you CBA to research the claims, but dismiss them as "twaddle".

Smart.

There's a reason you are on a certain list of mine, Bravo squared. Luckily I'm not the sort of person to put you on a more terminal one.

Bye now. Have a wonderful time.
 
There's a reason you are on a certain list of mine, Bravo squared. Luckily I'm not the sort of person to put you on a more terminal one.

Bye now. Have a wonderful time.
An internet death threat. I'm quaking in my pants.

Weak.
 

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