National Health Service

#1
Now I'm sure we've all heard the horror stories about the NHS, some here have suffered at its hands - and others still won't hear a word said against the ministering angels of the nursing profession. It's something of a crap shoot, it seems - some experiences are massively negative, others wholly positive, the bulk of them, I suspect are, you know, meh. One thing that is clear is that there is a problem - and the NHS, with its costs, its dominance by the producers and the unions and its institutional inefficiency and massive waste of public money, is by no means the envy of the world (well, maybe of the United States and Zimbabwe, for different reasons).

Here's a suggestion. National Health Service. Health Service. Service.

Set it up as a disciplined, uniformed organisation, with national pay scales, a rank system and a professional trade structure. Doesn't have to be military, although that sort of structure might be appropriate. Have folk actually in charge - and accountable for their actions.

Just off the top of my head, but wondering what the mighty brains of ARRSE think.
 
#3
The NHS is a great concept, and not as poorly executed as it might seem. After all, it's cheaper than private medical insurance and you'll get a high standard of care should you require it. That's not to say it couldn't be better and/or cheaper.

One of the main issues with achieving change, I think, is that the NHS has been used for political tug of war since its inception. As a result, views are polarised. People are either fanatical about the NHS, or despise the organisation; and unfortunately, this means that any discussion about the NHS descends quickly into argument.
 
#4
It's an abomination that should be scrapped, it's political because it's a state run industry Massively wasteful and now as we are discovering more focused on paperwork than patients because of political interference. If more than one thousand people died in in the care of any other organisations heads would roll, not in the NHS though.

Scrap it.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#5
It's an abomination that should be scrapped, it's political because it's a state run industry Massively wasteful and now as we are discovering more focused on paperwork than patients because of political interference. If more than one thousand people died in in the care of any other organisations heads would roll, not in the NHS though.

Scrap it.
Good luck finding reasonably priced insurance to cover every medical problem you may have. When my last dog was old I was paying £80 a month I think and that didn't cover everything.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
IMO its broken and needs starting again. it used to compete with drug companies and now its at their beck and call.
 
#8
Now I'm sure we've all heard the horror stories about the NHS, some here have suffered at its hands - and others still won't hear a word said against the ministering angels of the nursing profession. It's something of a crap shoot, it seems - some experiences are massively negative, others wholly positive, the bulk of them, I suspect are, you know, meh. One thing that is clear is that there is a problem - and the NHS, with its costs, its dominance by the producers and the unions and its institutional inefficiency and massive waste of public money, is by no means the envy of the world (well, maybe of the United States and Zimbabwe, for different reasons).

Here's a suggestion. National Health Service. Health Service. Service.

Set it up as a disciplined, uniformed organisation, with national pay scales, a rank system and a professional trade structure. Doesn't have to be military, although that sort of structure might be appropriate. Have folk actually in charge - and accountable for their actions.

Just off the top of my head, but wondering what the mighty brains of ARRSE think.
It was sort of like that originally, after all nearly everyone who was involved at the start had actually been in the military in WWII. However they all retired and Thatcherism came along at about the same time and staff started to vote with their feet because the 1940s model didn't pay very well.
 
#10
The NHS is a great concept, and not as poorly executed as it might seem. After all, it's cheaper than private medical insurance and you'll get a high standard of care should you require it. That's not to say it couldn't be better and/or cheaper.

One of the main issues with achieving change, I think, is that the NHS has been used for political tug of war since its inception. As a result, views are polarised. People are either fanatical about the NHS, or despise the organisation; and unfortunately, this means that any discussion about the NHS descends quickly into argument.
It's great if you're not one of the poor mother******s dead or dying (in their hundreds apparently) of neglect.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
Drug companies can't even give out a post it pad anymore. Drug reps are few and far between now.
best friends dad was a doctor and had freebies gallore, my TA MO used to bring 'samples' on camp. they stripped out all the little companies and competition to a 'name that price' way of doing things, they don't need reps anymore as they are over a barrel, they use special interest groups and charities instead to kick up a fuss and force the nhs to buy mostly useless over expensive treatments.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
yeah this new nhs is full of hermers who cant frighten anyone with a healthy prostate.
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
#15
Sir Gerry Robinson had a go at changing things a while back, and how we laughed. It doesn't help matters that Tory slash and burn politics are back again with a vengeance. Presumably, the NHS does its best. However, the NHS doesn't seem to be a service, it's often arrogant, sometimes patronising, and a very unpleasant experience. Impressions at one Leicester hospital had us thinking they were all miserable and rude. Unfortunately, since watching two relatives starved to death under denial of care, and knowing NHS Trusts have been handsomely paid for results on the Liverpool Pathway, I have two rules. Don't expect elderly relatives to be safe, and never sleep while they're in hospital. Now just whose fault can that be. The NHS, and Community Social Care, cannot deny that their treatment of our geriatrics shames us all.

Care Quality Commission: Elderly denied dignity and respect - Telegraph
 
#16
Is it cheaper? We all hear stories about America's health insurance costs, but Australia charges 1.5% Medicare levy which pays for all emergency treatment and around 40% of the costs of routine treatment. BUPA top-up costs $250 odd a month, for which you get a 30% reduction in Medicare levy. With the two, you get about 90% of your hospital bill paid. As well as medical care, the BUPA insurance covers a whole load of health related services, including sports massage, physio, dental etc etc. The supply side is nearly all in the private sector; you get a choice and, from what I have seen, quality.

Plus there's no bottomless pit of unfunded pension liabilities; all public servants pay into Superannuation funds just like every other worker. Unlike the pension contributions of UK public sector workers, which simply go to pay the pensions of retired workers (if a bank did this, it would be a Ponzi scheme), the funds are invested into the economy.

There are other ways of delivering quality public health services. If the NHS is so good, why hasn't it been copied? Why is it only in the UK that we have mass manslaughter condoned with no-one held to account? Why does the UK provide free health care to half of the world?

Queue indignation from NHS staff who are on ARRSE. We'll get a whole load of statistics proving that Mid Staffs didn't happen and that, anyway, its been sorted. Then they'll tell us how hard they work, that they are poorly paid and deserve the pension.

A whole load of sacred cows to slaughter here.
 
#17
The NHS was most definitely run on military lines certainly regarding the hierachy, if on a ward someone of a higher rank instructed a junior nurse to do, that nurse did, knowing their ass was covered should anything go wrong, that is certainly not now, every qualified nurse is responsible for their practice.

The NHS is growing in what it can provide, be that drugs, therapies, operations and services, which is great but its costs grow in proportion.

Then factor in the increase in population, both home grown and imported (with their own language, cultural, religious and dietary needs), a Government who produce glossy leaflets offering every right under the sun eg "you can choose where you have your operation" blah blah blah, a litigatious society so every healthcare practitioner has to complete paperwork to endth degree just to cover their ass if complaint is made, the list goes on.

How in gods name can the above provide the perfect service that is everyones ideal, it bloody cannot, it can be improved most definitely, but just on cost it is not possible to provide the service demanded with the money provided.

The NHS should be first and foremost providing the basics, yes in hospitals that means meeting nutrition, hygiene and basic human rights needs, then build from there, it is the basics that are lost nowadays so often.

Using Healthcare assistants/nursing assistants as an example, they used to be directed to ensure the above basics needs were met, now so often that is not happening, they will now be doing the 4 hourly observations or the such like.

Management of the NHS budget can and must be improved, but at end of day how can anyone truly budget for the growing demands of the populus health issues, what is a Accident unit supposed to do if their finances have been used up for that month/year, just shut the doors?

In not so distant passed the number of for example antibacterial drugs available was smaller eg in 1998 the British National Formulary needed 37 pages to cover them now in 2012 it has risen to 54 pages worth.

Healthcare costs money, its cost will increase year on year or the service provided decreases, who is gonna pay, 3 guesses.
 
#18
Bring back Matrons who ruled with a rod of iron, and Ward Sisters who scared the crap out of everyone - including the patients - if things weren't absolutely correct!
Bunkum, The Matrons and Ward Sisters in your rose coloured spectacles view sure made everything look nice n rosey, but a nurse found actually talking to a patient who perhaps needed a chat was viewed as slacking and sent off to check the linen room was tidied etc.

I have witnessed Matrons get a female nurse to leave a busy ward and go to the seamstress to get a new uniform, just because the hem was deemed a little too short, worked under ward sisters who got beds remade if the hospital corners were not all in uniform order, patients had to be sat up prior to doctors rounds not for 'medical' reasons but just to please her or the consultant.

Again the list goes on, i hope when you buy a car that you do not just look at the nice shiny exterior which all can see but rather look at the inner workings too.
 
#19
The NHS is the biggest employer in Europe and more of the UK working population is employed in healthcare than any other major first world economy. Meanwhile, the NHS has a ring-fenced budget at a time when there is no money left in the current account; there is no slash and burn. Every member of the NHS staff has a pension which is index linked and underwritten entirely by the taxpayer. Over half of the population pays less into the tax pot than they consume in services and there is a significant slice of the population who will, through choice, make no contribution to the tax pot through their lives. Something has to give.....
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
#20
CornishPasty makes a good point about Matrons. Having not worked in the NHS, but with the elderly, many home care managers or Age Concern managers and staff were ex senior NHS. The one clear message was that staff and management, meetings, revenue and selling the old folk everything from soap to cakes until their purses were empty, came before the patients/clients. Social care, Community Centres, and Drop -ins, are full of control freaks and fcukwits that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near vulnerable and disabled people. It's not just the NHS that wants burning down, the entire Care system fcuking stinks.
 

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