Nation(al) Service

endure

GCM
A lot of Y.T.S. Trainees were thrown away at the end of their 2 year courses because Employers did not want to pay them a proper full time wage.
That's the way a lot of merchant navy officer cadets are treated today. Shipping companies get paid to put cadets through the necessary training to get their ticket.

The good companies keep them on for at least 6 months after they've got their ticket so they have a bit of sea time in rank to show to a new employer.

The shoddy companies take the money and heave them out the day they get their ticket.
 
Would there not be a similar effect with jobs being created in the North?

Not taking the piss but imagine 100,000 jobs being created, plus assorted caterers, cleaners etc. Probably a better spend of money? Even if they were repainting roads for 2 years.
Minimum wage plus employers and employees NI, less income tax, plus uniforms/ ppe, training, etc etc etc.

And anyway, where are these hordes of scrounging dolies? Employment is at its highest in decades.
 
In my mind it was never going to be worth working a full week for a cheque for all of £29.50.

I didn't have to pay any Travel Expenses as the Works Van used to pick me from the house.

Still regret having to go on the Y.T.S. for 15 months though even though there was nothing else around at the time for School Leavers.
Think it all depended on the scheme you were on. I did YTS in 1985. Best thing I ever did, learnt to type, office skills, some electronics and computers. But I also had school friends who were essentially child labour for a year, with little to show for it in terms of skills.
 
Think it all depended on the scheme you were on. I did YTS in 1985. Best thing I ever did, learnt to type, office skills, some electronics and computers. But I also had school friends who were essentially child labour for a year, with little to show for it in terms of skills.
I was on the Y.T.S. for 15 months from @November 91 to February 93. I was a Trainee Double Glazing Fitter.

All l did was the jobs that nobody else wanted to do, l never did the one day a week in 'Tec to learn more about the trade and all l learned (as if l didn't know it already) was that is was not worth working all week for £29.50.
 
There are very sound reasons why industry doesn't want dumb teenagers, and neither should the armed forces.
Instead of trying to turn back the clock to a system that didn't work,
It did work for the majority of youngsters back then.
 
Lots of replies since yesterday, mostly why it would be hard to do, expensive and some saying a waste of time.

Given my 'inspiration' was watching Ukraine seemingly come together under a common goal to fight for their country, and my view that the UK is now fundamentally damaged by the multi-cultural/immigration experiment failure, actively being taught the country was/is an evil regime from early schooling through to adulthood and many having seemingly little patriotism and association with the UK.

Then there's the lack of National Resilience at a personal and industrial level that needs addressing.

There's 50 years worth of drip, drip, drip at the education and institutional level to be firstly corrected then redefined, there's 30 years (to be honest, I don't know the last time were were energy secure) of infrastructure neglect, and the fundamentals of law, order and military security to get sorted.

I've put forward my proposal which, you're right, it will be extremely hard to do and expensive, but affordable if we reprioritise and look at it as a 30 year, multi generational project - not a 5 year political term one - and it most certainly won't be a waste of time.

No doubt my idea has tons of holes - where are your better ideas, or are we done?
 
Lots of replies since yesterday, mostly why it would be hard to do, expensive and some saying a waste of time.

Given my 'inspiration' was watching Ukraine seemingly come together under a common goal to fight for their country, and my view that the UK is now fundamentally damaged by the multi-cultural/immigration experiment failure, actively being taught the country was/is an evil regime from early schooling through to adulthood and many having seemingly little patriotism and association with the UK.

Then there's the lack of National Resilience at a personal and industrial level that needs addressing.

There's 50 years worth of drip, drip, drip at the education and institutional level to be firstly corrected then redefined, there's 30 years (to be honest, I don't know the last time were were energy secure) of infrastructure neglect, and the fundamentals of law, order and military security to get sorted.

I've put forward my proposal which, you're right, it will be extremely hard to do and expensive, but affordable if we reprioritise and look at it as a 30 year, multi generational project - not a 5 year political term one - and it most certainly won't be a waste of time.

No doubt my idea has tons of holes - where are your better ideas, or are we done?
Leave things alone. Throughout the covid pandemic people have shown plenty of resilience, no shortage of volunteers for assorted causes, endless self help groups, etc.
The one thing Brits absolutely will not tolerate again is being told what to do by politicians and do gooders.
 
Leave things alone. Throughout the covid pandemic people have shown plenty of resilience, no shortage of volunteers for assorted causes, endless self help groups, etc.
The one thing Brits absolutely will not tolerate again is being told what to do by politicians and do gooders.
No.
 
I was on the Y.T.S. for 15 months from @November 91 to February 93. I was a Trainee Double Glazing Fitter.

All l did was the jobs that nobody else wanted to do, l never did the one day a week in 'Tec to learn more about the trade and all l learned (as if l didn't know it already) was that is was not worth working all week for £29.50.
And that’s why I know I lucked out with my scheme, compared to others. Your scheme should have been an apprenticeship, but in reality was very cheap labour - mine was cheap labour for the two work placements I got at an insurance broker and engineering company, but I got skills that helped me get a job that actually paid a proper wage.
 
And that’s why I know I lucked out with my scheme, compared to others. Your scheme should have been an apprenticeship, but in reality was very cheap labour - mine was cheap labour for the two work placements I got at an insurance broker and engineering company, but I got skills that helped me get a job that actually paid a proper wage.
I walked out of where l was working on the Y.T.S. About 1 month later l got a job in a Factory that was only a 10 minute walk from the house and l took home £130 in cash for my first weeks work there. I ended up working there for nigh on 20 years.

Still it is nice to know that you gained something from your Y.T.S. experience.
 
And that’s why I know I lucked out with my scheme, compared to others. Your scheme should have been an apprenticeship, but in reality was very cheap labour - mine was cheap labour for the two work placements I got at an insurance broker and engineering company, but I got skills that helped me get a job that actually paid a proper wage.
I did the precurser to the YTS - the ironically named Youth Opportunity Programme (YOP) which involved doing the sort of low grade stuff the council should have been doing such as painting lamp posts etc

Some people I knew did get placements like working in shops for local employers but what would happen is once someone finished their placement the trainee would get a piece of paper saying they'd completed their placement , then the same company would take on someone else as free labour for six months. I'm not sure if this was legal or not but it never struck me as morally right and is why I'm bitterly opposed to this type of workfare
 
I did the precurser to the YTS - the ironically named Youth Opportunity Programme (YOP) which involved doing the sort of low grade stuff the council should have been doing such as painting lamp posts etc

Some people I knew did get placements like working in shops for local employers but what would happen is once someone finished their placement the trainee would get a piece of paper saying they'd completed their placement , then the same company would take on someone else as free labour for six months. I'm not sure if this was legal or not but it never struck me as morally right and is why I'm bitterly opposed to this type of workfare
Y.O.P. / Y.T.S. were just a scam to fiddle Youth Unemployment Figures. Employers had an unlimited supply of School Leavers who could be made to work for Pocket Money Wages and would in turn would be officially in Training/Employment.

Most of us dropped out of our Courses as soon as we could get a properly paid job.
 

Mbongwe

War Hero
Society is already paying their unemployment benefits and healthcare, and will often be paying their housing costs too. Their children will carry on being taught, at public expense, and they'll eventually die or retire to a minimal pension, again paid for by society.

Long term ( over 3 months) unemployment invariably includes large numbers of illiterate/ innumerate adults, special needs and mental health cases, life changing illness cases, those with outdated skills, ex convicts, and so on.
All of which are covered, however poorly, by society paying for it.
Incentivising work and deincentivising long-term unemployment is key to bringing down the bill and tackling the societal disrepair this country's in.

I've often thought the UK should implement a comparatively high-rate (say two-thirds of the claimant's last wage) of Jobseekers Allowance for the first three months, and then rapidly decrease it month on month.

That would prevent much of the "oh $%£*" moment that people have when they suddenly lose their job, and at the same time make it very clear that living off the dole won't be a viable lifestyle choice...
 
I got the extremely generous amount of £90 a week to "learn" how to work in a shop. Most other skillseeker positions were 50 note a week. As @Mölders 1 said, I f*cked off when offered a real job (1 SG haha)
 
Incentivising work and deincentivising long-term unemployment is key to bringing down the bill and tackling the societal disrepair this country's in.

I've often thought the UK should implement a comparatively high-rate (say two-thirds of the claimant's last wage) of Jobseekers Allowance for the first three months, and then rapidly decrease it month on month.

That would prevent much of the "oh $%£*" moment that people have when they suddenly lose their job, and at the same time make it very clear that living off the dole won't be a viable lifestyle choice...
It's a general principle that anyone out of work for over 3 months won't find a job without retraining/ upskilling/ more education.
It's also accepted that hard core, long term unemployed are so because they're unemployable.

As ever, it's about cost: pay Mr Bloggs £70 a week to do nothing, or do that AND spend thousands getting him employable.
 
It's a general principle that anyone out of work for over 3 months won't find a job without retraining/ upskilling/ more education.
Plenty of basic jobs that dont need much of that.


As ever, it's about cost: pay Mr Bloggs £70 a week to do nothing, or do that AND spend thousands getting him employable.

Doleys rarely cost just 70 quid a week.
 
Plenty of basic jobs that dont need much of that.
Define "basic job" ? As someone who spent many years working in kitchens as a catering assistant you might think a kitchen porter might be "an unskilled basic job" but things like communication and team work are needed and quite often they're in short supply. For some ridiculous reason many employers often go for the lowest denominator ie foreigners who struggle with English which just compounds the problems
 
Define "basic job" ? As someone who spent many years working in kitchens as a catering assistant you might think a kitchen porter might be "an unskilled basic job" but things like communication and team work are needed and quite often they're in short supply. For some ridiculous reason many employers often go for the lowest denominator ie foreigners who struggle with English which just compounds the problems

A basic job is something you give an 18 year old, nothing stops a 38 year old doing it.
 
I’d do anything to provide for my family, work is work and I’ve never been embarrassed by what I was doing for a living.

Wnaking off a pig was a low point if I’m being honest.

I feel there’s such an expectation in society now that people will get a job and earn loads doing something they enjoy.

There doesn’t seem to be enough people with a needs must attitude.
 

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