Nanny knows best

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by stoatman, Feb 27, 2005.

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  1. An interesting blog chronicalling the more inane aspects of the Nanny State:

    And some prize quotations:

  2. " Health and Safety".
    This appears to be the theme of every pursuit.The NHS, social services (and their legal depts) appear to consider that breathing, walking, talking, farting etc represents a hazard to life.
    Visit your local A&E. The first thing that you are likely to see is not a doctor or nurse.
    It will likely be a card denoting how you can sue the people attempting to look after you.
    "Risk assessments" are a related matter. Very valuable in defined cases.
    Unfortunately they appear to encompass everyday activities!.
  3. It's all our own fault really. If we (not arrse but society in general) were not so willing to blame someone else whenever somthing goes wrong, there would be no need for the hordes of 'no win no fee' scumbag lawyers who claim to be empowering the people.

    The councils are just covering their arses in case some nonce trips on the council soap in the swimming bath and sues them for negligence.

  4. I saw health and safety at work when they closed an obstacle course down at an adventure centre where I worked (could'nt call it an assualt course not pc (':twisted:') the inspector did'nt have any qualifications or experiance in outdoor education but knew about playgrounds(':?'). Thing was 2 years ago it passed its inspection the only change from then was the replacement of ropes. so the inspector Quote"well you've retied the knots thats changed the nature of the course"
    Our camp kitchen got closed down as well basically an open shed with a sink and two gas hobs and some stainless steel work surfaces as they classed it as
    a commercial kitchen?.
    but if we put up a 12X12 next to it with some formica tables and moved the gas hobs there that was ok?
    We suspect a parent complained because we could'nt guarentee a week long camp would be completely Vegan (':x')
    the only accidents we'd have were kids and adults falling over in the woods when not actually taking part in an activity.
    response to that could'nt you put down non slip matting ?
    for real stupidity you should see the health and safety executives attempt
    to implement working at height regualtions for rock climbing and mountaineering instructors.
    use of scafolding no going out in bad weather and non slip surfaces (':roll:').
    The sad thing is the muppets can't even see when there being ridiculous.
    and builders keep dieing every week while there worrying about ramblers javascript:emoticon(':twisted:')
  5. scaryspice

    scaryspice LE Moderator

    The current fad for blaming "elf and safety" at every turn, when really the issue is the "who can we blame for our own stupidity" and "no win no fee no responsibility" society is something that really winds me up.

    I agree absolutely with Agent_Smith. If we weren't alwasy looking for someone to blame every time we did something stupid and hurt ourselves then this problem of "closing everything down" wouldn't exist.

    Brighton - I'm sorry you suffered from this nannyism, but who exactly was it that closed down your obstacle course - was it your own management afraid of claims or was it the enforcing authority (HSE or local council)? You even admit that the kitchen closing down was a result of a parent's complaint - now who's to blame for that? Maybe if the little darlings weren't so cosseted they'd grow up to be decent members of society instead of dole-scrounging, whining chavs.

    Is the non-slip matting comment real or a bit tongue in cheek? No HSE inspector I have ever met would ever say something so dumb.

    As for the work at heights thing - HSE have been totally misrepresented here by the popular press, who like to bash the H&S profession almost as much as they do the military (can you tell I'm in both :D - not in HSE BTW) Try this link for a slightly more factual version

    The black and white way H&S is often applied in the military doesn't fill me with glee either. I was made aware a few weeks ago of someone working in Iraq where guys wokring with helicopters have been asked to wear hi-vis vests - despite the obvious risk of being shot. This is a typical example of "black & white rules" being applied with no effort at risk assessment. If we behaved like this in industry, we would already have no manufacturing left in this country, instead of just being on our way towards that.

    I'll stop now before I go on too much (Might be too late for that :oops: )

  6. the local council officer closed the obstacle course down its reopened now with minor alterations.
    what gripped me was the little turd could'nt tell us what was wrong with it just that in his view it was dangerous two months later managed to have a chat with a professional who actually advised as what needed doing very minor result course back up work needed doing about two days work.
    the kitchen got closed down because H&S came out as a result of this parents complaint and decided it was a commerical kitchen.
    but were happy with us to move the gas stove to a tent and cook from there.
    the bloke they sent was an expert on PLAYGROUNDS!
    knew nothing about high ropes outwardbounds etc.
  7. scaryspice

    scaryspice LE Moderator

    BH sounds like you were unfortunate with a jobsworth EHO from the local council - I've met some of those too. I agree that it's very furstrating to be "shut down" with no explanation of what you have to do to get back open again - I've never had that attitude from an enforcing officer, those that behave like this give everyone in the profession a bad name.

    Sadly the kitchen thing is true - 'tis probably as a result of the Food Safety Act which would consider this to be a "food business" as it's in a permanent location. Can't blame the enforcer for that - it's a legislation thing in response to more stringent food hygiene requirements. Ironically these were brought in because of an increasing number of serious food poisining cases - mainly down to cowboy operators who didn't know what they were doing. However your kitchen didn't get closed down "by H&S" - it was closed down (or at any rate not re-opened) by your own management who decided they couldn't afford to comply with the law regarding food hygiene in kitchens - right?

    Yes it's a weird anomaly that you the same rules don't apply in a tent. I assume this is because it's not a permanent business and would be difficult to issue a licence for (This is not my area of expertise) Having said that, you can't just do whatever you like just becayse it's in a tent - there are common-sense rules to be followed - but most chefs would be completely clear about them.

    Please don't tar all H&S people with the same brush - some of us are trying very hard to keep the profession in the real world!

  8. I'm with Scary on this.

    The real 'enemy' is the fear of litigation and insurance companies having to pay out. H&S is just a convenient excuse on which to hang the blame.

    The entire country is becoming risk adverse rather than learning how to accept and deal with it. Some of the most 'dangerous' (according to statistics!!) daily things we do (crossing roads, driving cars etc.) are accepted because it would cause inconvenience not to do so.

    We need someone with some real balls to stand up and make people take notice and make them come to their senses. :(
  9. scaryspice

    scaryspice LE Moderator

    Spot on. I post to a H&S professionals' forum (well got to do something work-related during the day :D ) and every time there's an over-the-top H&S incident in the public eye (making kids wear goggles when playing conkers springs to mind!) we all tear our hair out over the stupidity of it. Silly things like this which are an over reaction to the fear of claims for damages are destroying our society. Pretty soon we'll all be afraid to go outside because today's kids aren't learning how to recognise, assess and mitigate risks. Instead they are learning that anything that happens to them is someone else's fault and they can always bag a chunk of compo no matter what.

    And the government says (after spending vast amounts of tax payers' money on a study) that there's no such thing as a compensation culture - HAH!

    I need to stop answering this now and go back to work..... :oops: :oops:

  10. sorry scary just had a couple of run ins with the jobsworth types fortunatly they did'nt find the chain saw fighting pit so they did'nt close that (':lol:').
    its hard enough taking kids out into the outdoors a 4 mile night walk seen as
    a bit hard going.
    did a mountain bike course in December where the instructor said ten years ago you could take a party of kids expect to cover 20 miles in a day now its 7 miles max (':twisted:').
    as a climber I take safety very seriously ( well not that seriously or I would'nt hang by my fingernails from(':eek:') )
    if the bloke had turned up with some knowledge of the industry and some helpful suggestions fair enough. But the jobsworth attitude plus no knowledge
    of what he was talking about example cleared the archery range and the equipment even though he held a bow back to front (':roll:').
  11. do you think its too late for me to sue my old school because i fell over playing hockey and now have a scar on my thigh where the red blaize on the field scratched me ???
    the world has gone mad people, pure and simple
  12. I suspect the acid test of this for most will be the first time they graze their knee (or whatever) on someone else's premises and have a clear case for getting a few bob free....

    It's tempting isn't it?

    No point either in waiting for or expecting "someone" to come along and change everything, not going to happen. Only you can make a change...