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N Korean nuclear strike could cause chaos in US

Meanwhile Moon has been well and truly suckered and I suspect will now infuriate Trump by promising a huge aid package as his hello present when he goes to NK.
 
As I said, that depends on whether you believe 'such action as it deems necessary' is the same as “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so.”
Make your mind up, will you? Either having a nuclear armed patron committed to your defence removes the need to pursue independent nuclear capability or it doesn't. It's a simple question that depends on nothing other than whether one rule is for all or not.

I did, but like much of what you say, it can be taken both ways.
I can't see how "I think the sanctions should be imposed on every nation that pursues nuclear weapons programmes" can be read in any other way than 'nuclear proliferation is a bad thing.'
As I've said, happy for all signatories of the NPT and those known to have nukes to be sanctioned
The bit where you obsess over DPRK's commonplace sabre rattling but are determined to avoid discussion of other, earlier and more persistent proliferators. Then justify our own lack of activity with exactly the same methods you've said have no place in the discussion.
 
Make your mind up, will you? Either having a nuclear armed patron committed to your defence removes the need to pursue independent nuclear capability or it doesn't. It's a simple question that depends on nothing other than whether one rule is for all or not.
You don't see a difference in the words? That's unlike you.
I can't see how "I think the sanctions should be imposed on every nation that pursues nuclear weapons programmes" can be read in any other way than 'nuclear proliferation is a bad thing.'
If you read your response to the one where I queried your stance, you may understand the confusion
The bit where you obsess over DPRK's commonplace sabre rattling
Obsess? That's rich coming from you.
....but are determined to avoid discussion of other, earlier and more persistent proliferators.
When have I said what the RoK says is always right?
Then justify our own lack of activity with exactly the same methods you've said have no place in the discussion.
Which 'lack of activity' are you moaning about now? I'm not on the UNSC. I'm not in any position to influence any countries decision to comply with or not UNSC Resolutions.

If you mean your obsession with'whataboutery' which part of "As I've said, happy for all signatories of the NPT and those known to have nukes to be sanctioned" do you not understand? Perhaps the UNSC (which of course includes Russia and China)feel some states are less of a threat than others?
 
Meanwhile Moon has been well and truly suckered and I suspect will now infuriate Trump by promising a huge aid package as his hello present when he goes to NK.
I would expect North Korea to ask for 'x', and Moon to counter with an offer of 'y'. I won't be surprised if South Korea's proposals include things calculated to give North Korea a stake in toning down the rhetoric, such as re-opening the South Korean operated industrial part in North Korea.

At the moment though, South Korea has their Olympics without the threat of war looming over it and North Korea are playing nice so they can show off to their own people there. Both sides got something they wanted, so I don't buy the theory that the North Koreans are having everything all going their way.
 
Two stories on the prospect of talks with North Korea.
Ban Ki-moon weighs in on a historic handshake between the Koreas and Trump's 'nuclear button' | CBC News
Pence raises prospect of U.S. talks with North Korea while applying 'maximum pressure'

In the first one, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said he is hopeful that the handshake between South Korean president Moon, and North Korean representative Kim Yo-jong (Kim Jong Un's sister) will set the tone for further progress which will result in lasting peace.
"I have seen so many cases of handshakes between and among countries and people in conflict," he told CBC News' Heather Hiscox. "Korea is one of definitely the most serious and most important cases.

"Therefore, this time, the handshake between President Moon and the highest possible ranking representative of North Korea has great political meaning."

He said that this handshake was politically significant and that it is important to keep the dialogue going.
He added: "What is more important at this time is how we can keep this small window of dialogue."

The important thing he said is how soon they will be able to engage in dialogue. The South Korean government will likely have to discuss this matter with the US, Japan, and Russia first.
"The question is how soon and how seriously we'll be able to engage in dialogue after all these games are over," Ban said. "I believe the South Korean government will have to discuss this matter with close allies like the United States and other key countries and Japan and Russia."

Ban was himself a former foreign minister in South Korea and said these latest developments are important and the momentum must be kept going.
But Ban, who is a former South Korean foreign minister himself, is not naive to the precariousness of the peace he hopes to see between the two countries.

He stressed it will be important to keep the momentum alive. Having himself grown up under the shadow of war between a divided Korea, the resolution holds personal meaning for him.

"I was able to see the tragic consequences... even though I was young at the time," he said.

"Reunification is a must," he said.

With respect to the other story, the US appears to have cautiously endorsed the idea of talks between South and North Korea.
With South Korea considering a rare summit with the North, U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence said in a newspaper interview that Washington and Seoul had agreed, in discussions on the sidelines of the Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang, on the basic terms to guide future diplomatic contacts with North Korea.

US VP Pence said that the US would not reduce sanctions, but they would be open to the idea of talks.
"The point is, no pressure comes off until they are actually doing something that the alliance believes represents a meaningful step toward denuclearization," Pence was quoted on Sunday as saying. "So the maximum pressure campaign is going to continue and intensify. But if you want to talk, we'll talk."

However, I will point out that the US has already recently agreed to the notion of perhaps having talks, but then backed away from the idea altogether. Not everyone in Washington may have agreed to the idea and the US could back away from it again.

But given conflicting signals in the past from Trump and his aides over diplomacy with North Korea, it remained unclear whether Pence's remarks would mean a shift in U.S. strategy.

Some of the US opposition to the idea of talks seems to derive simply from the desire of some people to remain in control of the flow of events.
Washington was caught off guard by the effectiveness of the North Korean propaganda campaign, U.S. officials said.

"Kim ran an end-run on us, and he had some success, at least in the opinion section," one senior official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

South Korean president Moon complained to US VP that the tone of the rhetoric coming from Washington was not helpful to South Korea's diplomatic efforts. Pence apparently agreed to try to stuff a sock in it for now, but it's hard to say how long that will last.
Moon also told Pence that harsh U.S. rhetoric, including threats of military action, was not helpful to South Korea's fragile diplomacy with the North, the senior administration official told Reuters. Pence agreed the Trump administration would allow the two sides room to talk, the official said, adding, however, that Washington was concerned the North would drag out the process to buy time for its weapons development.

Both stories contain a great deal of background information on the development of the situation up to now and so are worth reading for those who want a refresher on how we got to where we are today.
 
North Korea warms to South after visit, volume down on border...
A positive step from the DPRK. The volume of their broadcasts has been turned down since the Olympics started:
A senior South Korean military official stationed at the border between North and South Korea told Reuters North Korea had lowered the volume of its border propaganda broadcasts since the Olympics’ opening ceremony on Feb. 9.

“I still hear it, but it is much less than before,” the official said on condition of anonymity.
Time is apparently running out according to Coats, Dir National Intelligence:
On Tuesday, the U.S. director of national intelligence, Dan Coats, said North Korea presented “a potentially existential” threat and said time was running out to act.

“Decision time is becoming ever closer in terms of how we respond to this,” Coats told a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing. “Our goal is a peaceful settlement. We are using maximum pressure on North Korea in various ways.”

—————

Coats said in an annual threat assessment report North Korea was likely to continue weapons testing in 2018 and noted that it had said it was considering an atmospheric nuclear test. The report said Pyongyang’s repeated statements that nuclear weapons were the basis for its survival “suggest the regime does not intend to negotiate them away.”

KCNA et al still silent on the summit proposal
 
More news on North Korean athletes at the Olympic Games in South Korea. 'I want to talk to them': North Korean Olympians enthrall South Koreans, who follow their every move

North Korea figure skaters are seen as having the best chance of any athletes from their country to win any medals, although that chance is admittedly still not too good. They are however being well received by the public in South Korea.
Polite applause typically follows pairs Olympic figure-skating teams during these routine training sessions. But lately, there's a heightened anticipation when the announcer introduces one particular team at the rink: "Tae-ok Ryom and Ju-sik Kim, from the Democratic People's Republic of Korea."

"Ohh, North Korea!" several female South Korean volunteers murmured excitedly, holding their smartphones aloft. It was the only practice the volunteers bothered to record that day, they conceded.

One of them is being called "Angel of Smiles" by the South Korean press.
Ryom earned the nickname "Angel of Smiles" in the South Korean press after she gave a cheery wave to reporters upon arriving at the athletes village.

The skaters and other North Korean athletes have fallen into a good-natured camaraderie with fellow Olympians, including their South Korean competitors.

The pair of Tae-ok Ryom and Ju-sik Kim have a Canadian coach Bruno Marcotte and trained in Montreal.
Ryom and Kim have been billed as North Korea's best chance at getting on the podium, but that chance is still remote. Their Canadian coach, Bruno Marcotte, trained them in Montreal and hopes they'll place within the top 10 or 12 teams.

One way or another, Marcotte said, they deserve their shot after qualifying for the Olympics in Oberstdorf, Germany, last year.
The two are seen below on the left, with Marcotte behind them.
marcotte-pic.JPG


The story notes that current feelings of good will may not last too long beyond the close of the Olympics. I don't think this should be too surprising a conclusion, given the ups and downs in relations between the two countries over the years. In my opinion, any lasting effects will depend upon the success of any diplomatic follow up later on this year.
 
Kim Jong Um made a surprise visit to the Olympics in South Korea.
howard-kim-impersonator.JPG


Kim Jong "Um" being the stage name of an Australian Kim Jong Un impersonator who normally goes by the name of "Howard".
Meet Kim Jong 'Um,' the Kim impersonator angering North Korea's Olympic delegates

The South Koreans seem to have had a sense of humour failure over this however, and kicked him out of the opening ceremony of the Olympics when he showed up with another friend posing as Donald Trump.
In Pyeongchang, though, neither the South Korean organizers nor the North Korean delegation were amused by Howard's antics over the past two weeks. Security ejected him from the opening ceremony when he showed up acting chummy with a lookalike posing as U.S. President Donald Trump.

kim-impersonator.jpg


Although perhaps we shouldn't be too critical of the South Koreans, as he was in questionable company in that instance.
 
An apparent meeting between North Korean officials and US VP Pence to take place during the Olympic Games was cancelled at the last minute, reportedly by the North Koreans.
North Korea calls off meeting with Pence, White House says
U.S. Vice-President Mike Pence was all set to hold a history-making meeting with North Korean officials during the Winter Olympics in South Korea, but Kim Jong-un's government cancelled at the last minute, the Trump administration said Tuesday.

I say "apparent meeting", because there is no clear information indicating that the North Koreans had ever confirmed any definite plan to meet.
There was no indication that a meeting had indeed been planned — and then cancelled on short notice — until Tuesday, more than a week after Pence returned to the United States. The State Department said that Pence had been "ready to take this opportunity" but would have used it to insist Pyongyang abandon its nuclear weapons and ballistic missile programs.

"At the last minute, DPRK officials decided not to go forward with the meeting," said State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert, using an abbreviation of the North's formal name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. "We regret their failure to seize this opportunity."

Indeed the North Koreans had previously said they had no intention of meeting with Pence during the Olympic Games.
North Korea had no immediate response to the news out of Washington. But North Korean officials had said previously that they had no interest or intention of meeting with Pence in Pyeongchang during the games.

On the other hand, the US reported that North Korea had "dangled" the possibility of a meeting. The US says that they believe the North Koreans weren't serious, and so backed out when Pence agreed to meet.
Pence's office, acknowledging the scrapped meeting on Tuesday, said North Korea had "dangled a meeting" in hopes that doing so would entice the vice-president to ease up on the North. Pence's office suggested that North Korea later bailed because it became clear he would hold firm on the U.S. stance if a meeting did occur.

Alternatively, the North Koreans may have heard the US was planning on delivering a lecture to them and they weren't interested in hearing one.
Pence's chief of staff, Nick Ayers, said that the planned meeting — first reported by the Washington Post — would have included an "uncompromising message" delivered by Pence about the "maximum pressure campaign" the Trump administration is waging to try to deter North Korea from proceeding with its nuclear program.

"Perhaps that's why they walked away from a meeting, or perhaps they were never sincere about sitting down," Ayers said.

Given the lack of preparation and the lack of an actual negotiating team, any such meeting would simply have been a platform for both sides to reiterate their existing positions. That would have left the event an exercise in propaganda, making it no great loss anyway in my opinion.
 
In the same CBC article as above there is a video which the forum software will not let me embed here. The video is a 5-1/2 minute interview with the former Canadian ambassador to both North and South Korea. The former ambassador appears to be well informed about the region, and the video is well worth watching in my opinion. It is located about 3/4 of the way down the page.
North Korea calls off meeting with Pence, White House says
 
White House: Talks with North Korea must lead to ending nuclear...
End of the Games. Still no news on a summit and obviously the US has initiated some unilateral sanctions which has led to some statements. Anyway, despite what some hoped for, the US and S Korea still seem united in the goal of a denuclearised (okay, weapons) Korea. The two (RoK and DPRK) delegations met during the closing ceremony. The US and RoK are (currently) singing off a similar songsheet and it looks like talks will happen:
Responding to the meeting, the U.S. State Department said improved relations between South and North Korea hinged on resolving Pyongyang’s nuclear program.

“We are in close contact with the Republic of Korea about our unified response to North Korea. As President Moon stated, ‘the improvement of relations between North and South Korea cannot advance separately from resolving North Korea’s nuclear program,'” a State Department spokesman said.
Obviously DPRK (and others) are upset by the unilateral sanctions:
But the closing days of the Games were overshadowed by the U.S. announcement that it was imposing its largest package of sanctions aimed at getting North Korea to give up its nuclear and missile programs.

“Thanks to our supreme leadership’s noble love for the nation and strong determination for peace, long-awaited inter-Korean dialogue and cooperation have been realized and the Olympics took place successfully by the inter-Korean collaboration,” the North’s KCNA state news agency said, citing North Korea’s ministry of foreign affairs.

“On the eve of closing of the Olympics, United States is running amok to bring another dark cloud of confrontation and war over the Korean peninsula by announcing enormous sanctions against the DPRK,” it said, using the initials of the North’s official name, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
No mention is made by them of their choice of delegate to the closing ceremony:
The North’s decision to send former military intelligence chief Kim Yong Chol as delegation leader to the closing ceremony has enraged families of 46 sailors killed in the torpedo attack on their ship and threatens the mood of rapprochement that Seoul wants to create at what it calls the “Peace Games”.

North Korea has denied its involvement in the sinking.
No idea what 'Phase 2' will be but everyone can guess. DPRK saying a blockade will be considered an act of war:
U.S. President Donald Trump, in announcing the new sanctions on Friday, warned of a “phase two” that could be “very, very unfortunate for the world” if the sanctions did not work.

North Korea denounced the sanctions in a statement carried on its state media and said a blockade by the United States would be considered an act of war.

China also reacted angrily to the new U.S. measures, saying on Saturday the unilateral targeting of Chinese firms and people risked harming cooperation on North Korea.

Moon won election last year promising to try to improve relations with the North.
 
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