My last topic....lets start again

#1
Firstly, i'd like to apologise for the topic i started last night.
Ive not been on this forum before and thought it would be a good idea to get the general feeling from the guys on here. I jumped straight in with a question that obviously you all feel quite passionate about.
Im currently on CLM, and ive been set a defence project and asked should the 3 services amalgamate and form 1 single force. (This isnt my own opinion)
Ive done my research into it, and i'm now a bit stuck, i think ive said everything i need to about pay, tradition, uniforms, training, joint operations, exercise, medical etc and thought i'd look at it another way and get a general opinion from the lads.

I didnt want to give too much away before, i obviously didnt know how this forum is run, journalists etc.

So please accept my apology again, and any PM's would be appreciated with helpful books that i may not have come across.
Also, anything i use from here, will be referenced in my assignment.
Many thanks
 
#2
Well it has not been a gret success in Canada has it.

They were shafted for petty political reasons by someone who hated the military and thought he could have an instant USMC, by destroying the very ethos of each service. Convieniently forgetting that the US Marines are the smallest of the US forces and that the USA, USN and USAF also exist.
 
#3
hard_worker said:
Firstly, i'd like to apologise for the topic i started last night.
Ive not been on this forum before and thought it would be a good idea to get the general feeling from the guys on here. I jumped straight in with a question that obviously you all feel quite passionate about.
Im currently on CLM, and ive been set a defence project and asked should the 3 services amalgamate and form 1 single force. (This isnt my own opinion)
Ive done my research into it, and i'm now a bit stuck, i think ive said everything i need to about pay, tradition, uniforms, training, joint operations, exercise, medical etc and thought i'd look at it another way and get a general opinion from the lads.

I didnt want to give too much away before, i obviously didnt know how this forum is run, journalists etc.

So please accept my apology again, and any PM's would be appreciated with helpful books that i may not have come across.
Also, anything i use from here, will be referenced in my assignment.
Many thanks
You certainly got a bit of flak with your last post.

I’m not sure why, as it has been a topic of discussion for a number of years – at least dating back to when Canada re-arranged its Armed Forces. Maybe you touched a nerve given the recent history of UK Defence cuts and the embattled position in which HM Forces now find themselves.

I don’t know the details of the Canadian experience but from the few of their servicemen I have met, I got the impression it ended up being largely cosmetic – similar uniforms.

So I suggest research into Canada could be a good start.
 
#4
Didn't see the first topic, but it would appear a reasonable discussion to have given the current inability to operate jointly with all 3 services.

Also, recent op experience would suggest that its easier to operate with the US than it is with the RAF or NAVY from an Army perspective so perhaps it is worth looking at why.
 
#5
Anyone know where to find the origonal topic?
 
#8
An interesting question. It would be easy to take the areas you have highlighted and then systematically destoy any argument for taking such a step. It might be judged that you were then less than objective.

It may be better to look at the proposal from the point of view of why and who would want to do such a thing? If you drill down into the why/who aspect you may start getting some surprising answers. Some case studies from history and around the world might support your arguments.

It is just a thought and remember - you don't have to believe what you present, but it is useful to challenge the percieved view.

(Of course it is a crap idea, but so was getting rid of the majority of infantry line regiments)
 
#9
You have to take the military industrial complex into account. There is a great deal of business being done.

An amalgamation would mean alot less money going to arms manufacturers. BAE etc. Hence it will never ever happen.

IMO The marine corps exists as is because they wanted to spend more money on guns and planes and ships, not less.
 
#11
Many thanks for all your input, views, reasons, links etc. The canada and china info was useful.
I'll let you know how i get on, and anything i use will be recognised.
Cheers
 
#12
Inf/MP said:
Well it has not been a gret success in Canada has it.

They were shafted for petty political reasons by someone who hated the military and thought he could have an instant USMC, by destroying the very ethos of each service.
Convieniently forgetting that the US Marines are the smallest of the US forces and that the USA, USN and USAF also exist.
As the Government seems very unsympathetic to HM Forces maybe we have the same situation in the UK.

So those who have opinions could do worse than give them here.

Personally, I believe this is a solution in search of a problem.

There would still be three “departments” each with its own ethos and operational, equipment and manning requirements.
 
#13
Papa_Lazarou said:
Didn't see the first topic, but it would appear a reasonable discussion to have given the current inability to operate jointly with all 3 services.

Also, recent op experience would suggest that its easier to operate with the US than it is with the RAF or NAVY from an Army perspective so perhaps it is worth looking at why.
Sure, investigate why that is the case but amalgamating the three Services into one isn’t going to solve the problem – see my comments above.
 
#14
Handsome said:
You have to take the military industrial complex into account. There is a great deal of business being done.

An amalgamation would mean alot less money going to arms manufacturers. BAE etc.
Hence it will never ever happen.

IMO The marine corps exists as is because they wanted to spend more money on guns and planes and ships, not less.
Not sure I follow that argument.

Each of the three Services has its own particular equipment requirements regardless of whether or not they are amalgamated.
 
#15
I work in a joint unit, and even at this level everyone seems to want to pull in their own direction.

Pretty fustrating really.
 
#16
Like everything else.... If it is suggested by a politician or one of their satraps in the MoD, then beware as it will be for their benjefit and not the fighting services. [History has repeated itself often of late]
 
#17
Some Canadian military historians to look up:

Jack Granatstein
Desmond Morton
Carl Vincent
Brereton Greenhous

Also look up Paul Hellyer Min of Def (his idea to unify the CF - who now seems to be on the ET is real folks trip)
Pierre Trudeau (The PM that continued to buy into the unified CF)
Lester B Pearson - (The PM for who Hellyer worked for)

Lots of authorship and scholarship on the Unification of the CF. Check the online library at The Royal Military College of Canada. www.rmc.ca
That should give you a good reading list to start with.
 
#18
heidtheba said:
I work in a joint unit, and even at this level everyone seems to want to pull in their own direction.

Pretty fustrating really.
That surely, is life even between Army units and corps.

It certainly occurs throughout civilian organisations – sales versus operations, accounts versus marketing, operations versus HR, IT versus the lot of them etc. Yet every civilian organisation is an amalgamation

Amalgamating the Services will not remove this fact.
 
#19
exile1 said:
Like everything else.... If it is suggested by a politician or one of their satraps in the MoD, then beware as it will be for their benjefit and not the fighting services. [History has repeated itself often of late]
I agree. Probably a bean counter.

But then maybe every generation has to go through this sort of thing, if only to find out that there is very little new in the world and that their predecessors did actually know what they were doing.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
One might like to look at why and how the USAF separated from the US Army. Library of Congress or whatever should have some of the original minutes by proponents and opponents? .. Let your fingers do the walking ..
 

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