Muslims reported July 21 bomber to police two years ago.

#2
razorman said:
http://www.itv.com/news/britain_1006139.html

So much for muslims not standing up to extremists. Why didn't the police take note of this?
The letter does not say anything about "terrorists or bombs" it said "....the gang had been "inciting racial and religious hatred in the community......It informed police that they were spreading extremist literature and views, and had been targeting moderate leaders of the mosque for abuse. "

The police did take note because "...... CCTV was installed in the mosque after they contacted the Met, and there was also more visible police presence in the area."
 
#3
armourer said:
razorman said:
http://www.itv.com/news/britain_1006139.html

So much for muslims not standing up to extremists. Why didn't the police take note of this?
The letter does not say anything about "terrorists or bombs" it said "....the gang had been "inciting racial and religious hatred in the community......It informed police that they were spreading extremist literature and views, and had been targeting moderate leaders of the mosque for abuse. "

The police did take note because "...... CCTV was installed in the mosque after they contacted the Met, and there was also more visible police presence in the area."
Alternatively the police didn't do anything because sadly inciting hatred and talking nasty boll'ocks wasn't even an offence.
 
#5
Two years ago it wasn't.

Edited. Religious hatred that is, as in this instance. Nobody is talking about racial hatred.
 
#7
razorman said:
Inciting 'racial hatred' not an offence? I think you are misinformed.
Your topic title is on about "the bomber being reported 2 yrs ago", there is no mention of the word bomber in the letter to the police, you are spinning this to make it seem that 2 yrs ago the rozzers knew he was a bomber.
 
#9
armourer said:
Your topic title is on about "the bomber being reported 2 yrs ago", there is no mention of the word bomber in the letter to the police, you are spinning this to make it seem that 2 yrs ago the rozzers knew he was a bomber.
What on earth are you talking about? The topic header says 'July 21 bomber reported to the police two years ago'. Nobody said anything about him being reported as a terrorist in 2003 apart fom you. He was reported for 'inciting racial and religious hatred'. The former is a crime in the UK (and was a crime at the time) which is punishble between 2 and 7 years in prison. The latter should have given cause for him to be investigated and monitored, given that since September 11, extremism amongst young Muslims has been widely seen as a cause of concern by the British authorities. If the Muslim community is going to report extremists to the police, the police needs to take them seriously, not just 'increase presence at mosques'.
 
#10
Awol said:
razorman said:
The guy was inciting racial hatred - that was one of the reasons he was reported to the police. Read the article.
And what evidence was there?
I don't know. I know nobody did anything about this guy. I know that only two years later the guy tried to kill many innocent civilans on the tube. I hope the British authorities will take the threat of Islamic extremists a bit more seriously now.
 
#11
razorman said:
Awol said:
razorman said:
The guy was inciting racial hatred - that was one of the reasons he was reported to the police. Read the article.
And what evidence was there?
I don't know. I know nobody did anything about this guy. I know that only two years later the guy tried to kill many innocent civilans on the tube. I hope the British authorities will take the threat of Islamic extremists a bit more seriously now.
So if I report you to the plod for something now without any evidence, you'd expect them to lock you up just in case you do something nasty in a couple of years?
 
#12
I suppose the Mosque leaders just made up all those allegations. And it's just a bizarre 'co-incidence' that this same guy tried to blow up dozens of innocent people on the tube a couple of years later.

Some good quotes from the leader of Stockwell mosque:



"We could not have been more explicit. It was put in such a manner that it should have been taken seriously"

"the gang were inciting racial and religious hatred in the community...it informed police that they were spreading extremist literature and views, and had been targeting moderate leaders of the mosque for abuse."

""But sadly the authorities failed to assess the level of the threat"



Sorry, but after the events of July 7/21 people have to get their heads out of the sand about these kind of fanatics.
 
#13
The original Channel 4 News Report makes for interesting reading :(

The story began at the Finsbury Park mosque, in North London - it has a notorious history. In the 1990s, it was a known gathering place for dozens of radical fanatics. After repeated warnings from the Muslim community, the mosque was finally closed following a police raid. But what happened to some of its radical worshippers? Detectives are now investigating whether any of the eight suspected London bombers had links here - we have discovered that at least one of them did.

After the closure of the Finsbury Park Mosque, a large group of radicals suddenly found themselves with no base. We now know that some of them came here to South London. Amongst the group, a man known as Hamdi Isaac - who later changed his name to Hussain Osman.
"The police response was, and still is, that their hands are tied".
Hopefully not for too much longer!

News Report Transcript
 
#14
razorman said:
I suppose the Mosque leaders just made up all those allegations. And it's just a bizarre 'co-incidence' that this same guy tried to blow up dozens of innocent people on the tube a couple of years later.

Some good quotes from the leader of Stockwell mosque:



"We could not have been more explicit. It was put in such a manner that it should have been taken seriously"

"the gang were inciting racial and religious hatred in the community...it informed police that they were spreading extremist literature and views, and had been targeting moderate leaders of the mosque for abuse."

""But sadly the authorities failed to assess the level of the threat"



Sorry, but after the events of July 7/21 people have to get their heads out of the sand about these kind of fanatics.
The leaders of the mosque did the right thing, no question. But it reflects badly on them now when they are trying to blame the police for failing to prevent the bombings. With the evidence the police had (or rather didn't have) there was absolutely nothing they could have, or should have, done.

Perhaps if the mosque had preached about how dangerous extremist islam is before the bombings, they might not have happened.

Did they tell their congregations they had told the Old Bill? No? Why do you suppose that is?
 
#15
Awol said:
Did they tell their congregations they had told the Old Bill? No? Why do you suppose that is?
Read the channel 4 report, Osman was telling others in the mosque that the trustees were not being true Muslims and that the mosque was not following true 'Islamic teachings'. The congregation would have been aware of the matter, especially when Osman sent a letter to the mosque in response of the Trustee's letter to the police demanding their removal. It's safe to say that many in the congregation knew what the Trustee had done and supported the measure. Also if the elders in the Mosque were not concerned about extremist Islam why did they go to the Police about Osman and his activities?
 
#16
Awol said:
The leaders of the mosque did the right thing, no question. But it reflects badly on them now when they are trying to blame the police for failing to prevent the bombings. With the evidence the police had (or rather didn't have) there was absolutely nothing they could have, or should have, done"
How do you know the police had no evidence? Maybe they didn't investigate properly.

Perhaps if the mosque had preached about how dangerous extremist islam is before the bombings, they might not have happened
Sorry not going to wash. Since the July 7th bombings the constant message from the police and Government is that simply condemning terrorism is not enough from Muslim communities - they need to stand up and confront extremists. Well here we have an example from two years ago of a mosque going beyond simply condemning extremism and actually pointing the authorities to a man they considered a dangerous extremist. As castlereagh says - this was not a case of a 'clean skin'. In the two years since then - why was he able to join a terrorist cell. Why was he able to carry out an attack which, if it had succeeded, could have killed many innocent people? Was he being monitored? Why was he not intercepted beforehand? This is a serious matter. If the Muslim community carries out its obligation to report extremists, the authorities need to fulfill their obligation to deal with these matters seriously.

Did they tell their congregations they had told the Old Bill? No? Why do you suppose that is?
If they went to the trouble of informing the police, it's almost certain that they did inform their congregations about this matter. After all, one of their primary concerns was to protect the local muslims from this kind of extremism. Why do you think CCTV cameras were installed there? The congregation would have to know and support these measures
 
#17
castlereagh said:
Awol said:
Did they tell their congregations they had told the Old Bill? No? Why do you suppose that is?
Read the channel 4 report, Osman was telling others in the mosque that the trustees were not being true Muslims and that the mosque was not following true 'Islamic teachings'. The congregation would have been aware of the matter, especially when Osman sent a letter to the mosque in response of the Trustee's letter to the police demanding their removal. It's safe to say that many in the congregation knew what the Trustee had done and supported the measure. Also if the elders in the Mosque were not concerned about extremist Islam why did they go to the Police about Osman and his activities?
I didn't say the trustees weren't concerned about the extremists, I asked if they made public announcements condemning them.
 
#18
I thought I'd heard of Toaha Qureshi before, he does a lot of work in trying to get Muslims to integrate in Lambeth etc.

Anyway , this is reprouduced from South London News. My apologies to SLN for cutting and pasting in full , but I suspect some people won't be arrsed to click on the link , and it is important.


Mosques lock out bogus Muslims Jan 21 2005 Exclusive By Ben Ashford, South London Press


MUSLIM leaders today warn thugs and extremists not to blacken the good name of their religion.

In an exclusive interview with the South London Press, mosque officials reveal fears that criminals are "masquerading as Muslims" and coercing young people into joining gangs with threats of violence.

They speak of a minority of young men who, spurred on by violent images from Afghanistan and Iraq, are "deliberately misinterpreting" their religion's teachings and cajoling others into joining them.

But the leaders are determined their peaceful community should not suffer any backlash because of a mindless minority.

They told us of a tough new vetting process - backed by police - to keep thugs and bogus converts away from places of worship.

A joint statement from officials at Brixton Mosque and Stockwell Mosque read: "This behaviour is unacceptable and repugnant and is causing harm to the Muslim community."

The move has been praised by police, who have backed their decision to speak out.

TOUGH vetting process to keep extremists away from mosques in South London was revealed this week. It follows fears that criminal gangs with no interest in the true message of Islam are converting to the religion as a convenient expression of anti-establishment anger.

Reporter BEN ASHFORD spoke to leading figures from South London's Muslim community determined to stop their faith falling into the hands of thugs and hoodlums.

LEADING members of South London's Muslim community met this week to spell out a stark message to thugs and extremists looking to join their ranks: "Keep away from our mosques."

They moved to quell growing fears that gangsters with links to guns and drugs are "masquerading" as worship-pers to launch a crime wave across South London.

Clerics believe that bogus members - mostly recent converts who have no interest in the true, peaceful message of Islam - are coercing vulnerable people to take up the religion with threats of violence.
Fearing a backlash against the peaceful Muslim majority, officials from Brixton and Stockwell mosques issued a joint statement branding criminal behaviour in the name of Islam as "repugnant and unacceptable".

They also told us of tough new vetting procedures that would stop extremists infiltrating their places of worship and revealed that both mosques are now policed with CCTV to keep known thugs at bay.

The statement, exclusive to the South London Press, read: "Islam does not endorse in any way criminal activities such as robbery, theft, drug dealing or murder.

"Unfortunately a few individuals embrace Islam, and through their misplaced enthusiasm, involve themselves in criminal activities, believing that they are advancing the Islamic cause when, in reality, they are damaging it.

"This comes about as a result of a lack of knowledge, misunderstanding of the religion or misguided and erroneous teachings.

"There are also others who are not interested in Islam whatsoever and are simply masquerading as Muslims to continue their criminal activities.

"This behaviour is repugnant and unacceptable, and is causing harm to the Muslim community."

Abdul Haqq Baker, chairman of Brixton Mosque, said TV scenes of militant uprisings in the Middle East were presenting a distorted view of Islam that appealed to thugs and criminals.

"What we are seeing is a new phenomenon that I have not seen in my 15 years as a Muslim," he said.

"People are coming here because they want to join a gang or because they are scared into converting.

"The vast majority of young men that come to us become genuine, practising Muslims, but a small minority are coming for the wrong reasons.

"These people are focusing on the militancy they see in Afghanistan and Iraq. It appeals to them and their behaviour - but they are deliberately misinterpreting Islam.

"There is no war in this country. People being beheaded is barbaric and completely unacceptable in Islam, as in any society."

Under the new vetting process at both mosques, newcomers will face a tough one-to-one interview.

If they are unable to show a basic understanding of the religion and fail to convince officials of their reasons to convert, they will be shown the door.

At Brixton, new members are then put before the other 400 members who have a chance to air their concerns and veto membership, and both venues now use CCTV to keep out troublemakers.

When evidence emerged that an existing worshipper at Brixton Mosque was involved in street robbery he was instantly expelled.

Toaha Qureshi chairman of Lambeth Muslim Forum and a leading representative of Stockwell Mosque, added: "These people have hidden motives. Put simply, they are criminals and they have no place in a mosque.

"There are extremists in all communities, be it Muslim, Christian or Jew. These are people who will use religion to their own heinous ends."

Mr Qureshi, also chairman of Stockwell Youth Project, feared that recent pictures of British prisoners abusing Iraqi prisoners would further inflame the situation.

But he and his colleagues are determined that a minority of extremists would not deter their attempts to engage with the wider community and provide youth projects and initiatives to improve the borough of Lambeth.

"We are concerned these individuals will damage our relationship with the wider community but we are determined not to let the work we have done over the last few years to be undone," he added.

Efforts on behalf of both mosques to keep bogus worshippers at bay were welcomed by police who are examining the rise of gangs describing themselves as Muslims.

Inspector Graham Sutherland of Lambeth police told the South London Press: "We are aware that there are gang members who are trying to assimilate themselves in the Muslim faith and are involved in serious crime.

"The police are working extremely hard to root out these criminals who effect all of the community. And we're confident the mosques are doing everything they can to deter them from attaching themselves to the religion."

Insp Sutherland also praised Muslim leaders for their stand against crime.

"They have been very brave in bringing this out into the open," he said
.

and even more in the Groaniad.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1431814,00.html

Hoodlums in south London are calling themselves Muslim Boys to pretend they have links with global terrorism

Rosie Cowan, crime correspondent
Monday March 7, 2005
The Guardian

Teenage criminal gangs in south London are calling themselves the Muslim Boys and claiming to espouse Islam in an attempt to gain street credibility and trade on false perceptions about links to terrorists.
The gangs, who specialise in robbing local drug dealers, are alleged to have forced some members to convert at gunpoint and to pray before going out to commit crimes.

Community leaders are worried about escalating violence and the number of young with access to high-calibre guns.

But Metropolitan police chiefs and Muslim leaders say the youths have no genuine Islamic affiliations, nor any associations with al-Qaida linked groups.

Police chiefs say most belong to existing gangs inspired by black American ghetto culture and are using the Muslim tag because they think it is a new way to strike fear in the community. They also believe it will get them better treatment and nicer food in prison.

Many gang members have access to automatic and semi-automatic weapons and Detective Chief Superintendent John Coles, who heads Operation Trident, the Scotland Yard unit that targets gun crime in the black community, thinks they are responsible for several murders, attempted murders, and a series of robberies in the past few months
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/01/wislam501.xml

Toaha Qureshi, director of the Stockwell Green Community Services centre in south London, said that all the mainstream mosques have banned radical organisations such as al-Mahajiroun from preaching outside or even nearby. But such groups have simply moved their activities underground.

"We now have to be one step ahead. We need to show our kids how to divert their anger in the right way. We have to say to them that yes, there is injustice in western policy, but educate yourself about it. I say now is the time to build a mosque as a multi-purpose community hub," said Mr Qureshi. He showed several photographs and newspaper clippings of himself shaking hands or posing with various Home Office ministers and senior police officers.

"See these? I've been saying for the last five years that our youth were going abroad, that they were being recruited but no one has listened," he said. "And now, it's too late. Four years ago we saw 13-year-olds who we detected to be at risk and now they are 18, just like Hasib Hussein, one of the suicide bombers."

Integration, he said, was a two-way process. "Our community cannot do so unless there is effort put in place by the other parties and the Government. The Government needs also to bring practical solutions. There should be special efforts to attract young people to the army, police and the civil service."
 
#19
BBC six-O-Clock news tonight - special report raised an interesting issue.

Any Religious leader, (Imman), who incites racial hatred or agression against any others will be automatically deported. Apparently they've been doing it in France against the Algerians since their bombing campaign 10 years ago. "He who lives by the sword......gets deported" Fair one!
 
#20
mostly recent converts who have no interest in the true, peaceful message of Islam - are coercing vulnerable people to take up the religion with threats of violence.
The articles are nothing more than muslims coming up with yet another excuse as to why it ( the bombing) is nothing to do with them and look how nasty it is for them totally peaceful and tolerant muslims ...... especially as us muslims have been telling you infidels for years whats going on :roll:


Every day in the media theres some bloody muslim explaining to us nasty infidels why we deserve to be bombed and BTW it's other muslims doing it not us, well the more they keep this pathetic crap going the more people are getting p*ssed of with it.
 

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