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Musharraf warns UK over militancy

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4702609.stm

Musharraf warns UK over militancy

Pakistan's president has urged Britain to do more to tackle its own militancy threat following the London bombings.
Pervez Musharraf was speaking in an address to the nation in which he defended his crackdown on extremists.

He said the London bombers "cannot be called human beings" and said Pakistan stood with the UK in fighting terror.

He also called for Pakistanis to join a holy war on extremists and announced all religious schools would have to register with the government.
 
#2
Pakistan has always been a lawless cuntry. So many of its people are used to settling matters on their own account.
Pakistan was 'mainly' the old North West Frontier region with little in the way of trade for the Old Empire and so was never really brought into the stream of mainland India.
Western "agencies' trained up the local warlike race and now we are recieving their specilized attentions.
john
 
#3
As odd as it might sound, I feel Pres Musharraf has made a valid point. It is well and good pointing the finger at Pakistan, when your own countries capital has the nom de pleum of 'Londanistan' with western intelligence agencies, due to the insanely lax immigration controls of this government.

And before anyone starts of on how it is all the fault of the EU, think again! How I would like that to be the case. Unfortunately, our politicians are either more liberal, stupid or PC (take your pick) than French politicians, as we are accepting muslim radical clerics they are refusing entry to. Plainly then, the government cannot point the finger EUwards.

Doubtless old Teflon Tone will wanting all this to die a quick, not to mention quiet, death. If only the press weren't so compliant. It would not greatly surprise me to find the press ranting on how Pakistan should sort their own affairs before attending to us etc, instead of actually pointing out the truth of the immigration situation. Hopefully the government and parliament will now attend to this matter with all possible speed.

That said, it would not greatly surprise me if Liberty, or some other bunch of leftie tw@ts blocked it in the High Courts. Who said you can't beat democracy? Dunno, but they were bloody wrong! The courts beat democracy almost every day of the week!
 
#4
Musharraf says problem is in Britain, not in Pakistan

Washington, July 22 (PTI) Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has said that there was "no credible intelligence" tying the London bombers to his country and asked Britain to put its house in order before blaming others.

Seeking to turn the tables on Britain in the wake of Prime Minister Tony Blair's criticism that Pakistan was not doing enough to tackle terrorism, he said there was no need to blame Islamabad as the problem was not there but in England.

"The problem is not in Pakistan but in England. Let that be clear. They (London bombers) belong to an extremist organisation which has not been banned (in Britain). The hatred has been spread in London and nobody has moved against them. So why are they blaming Pakistan," he asked.

There was "no credible intelligence" linking the bombers to Pakistan, despite reports that three of the four had spent time there, he told ABC television in an interview.

Asked whether he knew what the bombers were doing in Pakistan, he said "we don't but we are going to investigate. Of course they came on British passports, and these people belong, unfortunately, to extremist organisations based in London itself." Lashing out at Britain, he said England had been slow to react to growing extremism within their own borders, including not acting upon a fatwah.

"What did England do about this (the fatwah). Have they banned these organisations? Have they arrested the person who has done that? No, nothing. In the name of human rights, in the name of liberty, human liberty, freedom of speech, this is going on... Please set your own house in order. Everyone has to do something," Musharraf said.
 
#5
Lashing out at Britain, he said England had been slow to react to growing extremism within their own borders, including not acting upon a fatwah
He has a point!
 
#6
There are several extremist organisations banned in Pakistan which are allowed to operate freely in the UK e.g Hizb-u-Tahir, Al-Mahajaroun. I believe one of these organisations issued a fatwah for Musharaff's assasination, which is what he is referring to in this quote. Also worth noting that many criminals, terrorists and general good for nothings in the Islamic world have been given sanctuary in the UK. Altaf Hussain of MQM, responsible for hundreds of terrorist killings in Karachi, is living happily in London. If the British Govt. is serious about fighting terror, it needs to start doing something about this double standard.
 
#8
Saudi also complained about religious extremism in Britain.
Yes, you know Saudi Arabia the country where women aren't allowed to drive for religious reasons!
 
#9
Currently in post-pub/through the looking glass/dream-like sort of state where the Pakistanis and Saudis are lecturing others on how to deal with human rights and religious extremism. How bizarre is that?

I think I'd better go and sleep it off. It won't be like this in the morning surely...
 
#10
There's nothing bizarre about it. Britain has had its head in the sand over terrorism over the last few years. Extremists like Bakri have been allowed to incite hatred and violence. Extremist groups have been allowed to function freely. Britain has constantly refused to extradite terror suspects from throughout the Islamic world. Meanwhile British citizens have been carrying out terror attacks in Israel, Iraq and other parts of the world. And now London too. It's about time the British Govt. started doing something about the the scourge of British Islamist terrorism.
 
#11
I agree with most of the comments, especially Razorman's about BAKRI. This crazy PC government allowed him to receive a people carrier vehicle costing 28K from the taxpayers purse........and this bastard incites hatred every time he opens his mouth. Come on, now is the time to get rid of evil bastards like BAKRI and their siblings.
 
#12
while i do not agree with a lot Musharaf or Prince Turki (the Saudi Ambo to UK ) had to say, they both have valid points
The UK gives asylum to these trouble makers and benfits and cars and disability benefits etc
and then refuses to extridite them to their home countries as they are morally against sending some one "home to a death sentace" well they can turn a blind eye to Zimbabwe and a lot of other huge tragedies.... so why not send these mad mullahs home to a long walk out in the desert and then the world is a safer place
to make a stand for freedom of speech the govt allows these venoumous filth to live here and bring all sorts of trouble on to a valued and respected part of the british population
 
#13
I understand that part of the Saudi government (read Royal family) wants to stage something like a "revolution from above" and to modernise the country, especially with the urban population in view , but they are forced to walk a tightrope as not to alienate the very feudalistic traditional rural tribal chiefs, who prefer to go back to the olde ways, where they had the absolute power.
This is also not helped by reactionaries within the royal family, who are waiting for their time to take over.

Jan
 
#14
Wasn't Britain allowing these groups haven here part of the "Covenant of Safety" whereby we allowed them here providing they did not cause any problems in this country?

It seems that according to a poll fpr the Telegraph that six percent of Muslims believe that the bombers were right in what they did. Not a large percentage until that is put into numbers = 100,000 people.

So much for not causing trouble here.
 
#15
6% of those polled. Not 6% of the population I presume?
 
#16
Presumably 6% of the Moslem population, the figure projected from the survey sampled.

The link to the article is
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...3.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/07/23/ixportal.html

The poll gave some disturbing figures in some aspects such as 32% believe that Western society is decadent and Muslims should seek to bring it to and end but some good ones as regarding terrorist activity, 73% believe they should inform the police if they knew it was being planned.

The results of the poll by You Gov are at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/07/23/npoll23big.gif
 
#17
RSupwood said:
Wasn't Britain allowing these groups haven here part of the "Covenant of Safety" whereby we allowed them here providing they did not cause any problems in this country?

It seems that according to a poll fpr the Telegraph that six percent of Muslims believe that the bombers were right in what they did. Not a large percentage until that is put into numbers = 100,000 people.

So much for not causing trouble here.
I do believe the paper said if the poll is accurate.
 
#18
razorman said:
There are several extremist organisations banned in Pakistan which are allowed to operate freely in the UK e.g Hizb-u-Tahir, Al-Mahajaroun. I believe one of these organisations issued a fatwah for Musharaff's assasination, which is what he is referring to in this quote. Also worth noting that many criminals, terrorists and general good for nothings in the Islamic world have been given sanctuary in the UK. Altaf Hussain of MQM, responsible for hundreds of terrorist killings in Karachi, is living happily in London. If the British Govt. is serious about fighting terror, it needs to start doing something about this double standard.
Though I agree that the British government should fix its own largely created Islamic militancy problem first
I can't help but feel Musharraf is doing his usual PR routine of cracking down on 'militants' when he feels western pressures If he is so serious on cracking down on militant extremism why not crack down on the MMA in NWFP? Also why doesn't he crack down on groups such as Jaish-e-Mohammed Lashkar-i-Toiba and Harakat ul-Mujahidina groups that have almost certainly has some contact or another with AQ? Or does he dare not touch these groups because of there role in Kashmir?

walther said:
I understand that part of the Saudi government (read Royal family) wants to stage something like a "revolution from above" and to modernise the country, especially with the urban population in view , but they are forced to walk a tightrope as not to alienate the very feudalistic traditional rural tribal chiefs, who prefer to go back to the olde ways, where they had the absolute power.
This is also not helped by reactionaries within the royal family, who are waiting for their time to take over.
I think your giving the Saudi Royals too much credit there I would say that the reform movement in the royal family characterised by the Crown Prince and figures such as Turki Al-Faisal is probably motivated more by the desire to keep the royal family in power than any real desire for modernisation or reform. I would also say that in the case of Saudi dissidents (not all of whom are AQ supporters) the Saudi government has no one but its self to blame for their radicalisation. Finally lest not forget which country spend billions of its petro-dollars spreading the joys of ‘wahhabism’ to the rest of the Muslim world.
 
#19
By castlereagh

I do believe the paper said if the poll is accurate.
You missed off the rest of the sentence from the newspaper
If these findings are accurate, and they probably are, well over 100,000 British Muslims feel no loyalty whatsoever towards this country.
If the poll is inaccurate it may well be that far less than 100,000 Muslims support the bombers. However if it is that inaccurate it might also be said that many more feel alienated, have no loyalty, would support the bombers and would not report terrorist ativity to the authorities.

That's the problem with polls they are subject to the answers given by the subjects questioned and by the interpolation of the pollsters.
Note however:
YouGov interviewed 526 Muslim adults across Great Britain online between July 15 and yesterday. The data were weighted to reflect the composition of Britain's Muslim population by gender, age and country of birth.

YouGov abides by the rules of the British Polling Council.
They are also open to the belief or disbelief of the reader.
 
#20
castlereagh said:
razorman said:
There are several extremist organisations banned in Pakistan which are allowed to operate freely in the UK e.g Hizb-u-Tahir, Al-Mahajaroun. I believe one of these organisations issued a fatwah for Musharaff's assasination, which is what he is referring to in this quote. Also worth noting that many criminals, terrorists and general good for nothings in the Islamic world have been given sanctuary in the UK. Altaf Hussain of MQM, responsible for hundreds of terrorist killings in Karachi, is living happily in London. If the British Govt. is serious about fighting terror, it needs to start doing something about this double standard.
Though I agree that the British government should fix its own largely created Islamic militancy problem first
I can't help but feel Musharraf is doing his usual PR routine of cracking down on 'militants' when he feels western pressures If he is so serious on cracking down on militant extremism why not crack down on the MMA in NWFP? Also why doesn't he crack down on groups such as Jaish-e-Mohammed Lashkar-i-Toiba and Harakat ul-Mujahidina groups that have almost certainly has some contact or another with AQ? Or does he dare not touch these groups because of there role in Kashmir?
Cracking down on MMA is a bit of a problem because they were democratically elected (elections which were demanded by the West). There are encouraging signs that people are fed up with MMA, for instance a rally called by their leaders to protest against Musharraf's new measures was a total flop:

Pakistan protests fall flat

It's worth noting that there are two types of terrorist groups in Pakistan, those that engage in Al-queda attacks and those that engage in sectarian sunni-shia violence. The first have been cracked down on pretty successfully. For a couple of years after 9/11, AQ groups carried out numerous attacks on Western targets, churches, etc in Pakistan. These attacks have almost completely dissappeared from Pakistani cities now, with most AQ activity now confined to the tribal areas. You are probably safer from an AQ attack in Islamabad than you are in London now 8O It is the internal sectarian groups who Musharraf has failed to crack down on, the kind who target Pakistani Muslims and blow up mosques rather than westerners. This is what Musharraf really needs to concentrate on now.

The figures quoted in the above surveys seem to back up Musharrafs point about British extremism. Remember there are 135 million Muslims in Pakistan, and only 1.5 million Muslims in the UK. Britain has far more prosperity and education than Pakistan. Also, Britain was never exposed to the radicalising influence which Pakistan experienced during the Soviet invasion of Afganistan ( thousands of Arab volunteers, Hundreds of extremist madrassas set up with CIA/Saudi funding, military training, etc). There are at least some understandable reasons as to why extremism may have taklen hold in some areas of Pakistan. The UK does not have any such excuses. Looking at these circumstances, proportionally the amount of global AQ terrorism perpetrated by Muslims born and brought up in Pakistan is relatively low. The amount of AQ terrorism perpetrated by Muslims born and brought up in the UK has been worryingly high. Not only have British citizens have been carrying out bombings in many countries, many more have been arrested on suspicion of planning attacks. Ian Blair claimed 3000 British Muslims have recieved AQ training. This survey indicated 100,000 sympathisers with AQ ideology. This is a serious problem for British society. How can such a small population of Muslims be displaying such a level of radicalisation. Pointing fingers at other countries won't help. The spectre of British born extremism must be confronted.
 

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