Multi Stage Fitness Test

icecold

Clanker
Kit Reviewer
#1
The Bleep test, in old money.

Recently we've had a poster put up in the unit displaying the required standards for the PFT (or whatever it is called nowadays). The poster shows 4 sections, one for press ups, one for sit ups, one for the run and one for the MSFT. The poster got me thinking, and left me with some questions.

Do you need to do all four sections for a PFT? in which case I don't think I've ever done one properly, and if not;

Is the MSFT in place of the run? And if it is then is this a realistic alternative given that the total distance for the MSFT is 2.02 km (minimum standard) in 10.40ish (minimum standard). I know roughly this works out at the same distance in the same time, in the world of averages. However you do start off very slowely and then speed up in the MSFT. So are people better suited to different testing methods. Personally I can do both with relative ease, however I would say I do find the bleep test much easier.

Thoughts?
 
#2
I think the MSFT can be undertaken where it is not possible to do a 1.5 mile run, ie if there is no suitable or in some cases safe running route.

In fact the MATTS document confirms this

"The msft may only be used ...where it is not possible to conduct a run ie

Logistical
Meteorological
Geographical
Security
 

icecold

Clanker
Kit Reviewer
#3
Thanks Polar. I thought that might have been the case. With my scientific head on, I'd be interested to see if more people are able to pass given an MSFT in place of a run, or if roughly they are the same pass rates. Might have to ask the PTI if we can do a little experiment!
 
C

CivPlod

Guest
#4
Let us know how it went then, if you did get your experiment done. I'd be interested to know. I posted a thread here, called what is fitness? Which is similar to your question about are some people better suited to different testing methods. Just because you run like a girl(thanks to blokeonabike), doesn't mean you are not fit in other ways!!!!!
 
#5
Thanks Polar. I thought that might have been the case. With my scientific head on, I'd be interested to see if more people are able to pass given an MSFT in place of a run, or if roughly they are the same pass rates. Might have to ask the PTI if we can do a little experiment!
I can honestly say I struggle to pass the MSFT, but have no dramas doing the Run. Odd. but then, I'm not a sprinter, and in effect thats what you're doing towards the end?
 
C

CivPlod

Guest
#6
Does your MSFT time in any way co-relate to your run time? I.E a "good" time for a male aged 30-34 on the run is between 11.02 and 10.29 the co relating time for MSFT is 10.2.
 
#7
I think the MSFT can be undertaken where it is not possible to do a 1.5 mile run, ie if there is no suitable or in some cases safe running route.

In fact the MATTS document confirms this

"The msft may only be used ...where it is not possible to conduct a run ie

Logistical
Meteorological
Geographical
Security
If that means weather, what a load of bollocks, as anyone who has had to run the Abingdon airfield route with wind blowing in their face will tell you.
I'm not sure how they link the MSFT to the mile and half, I'm alot better at the MSFT although I pass both, I normally last longer on the MSFT than those who beat me on the mile and half route.
 
#9
If that means weather, what a load of bollocks, as anyone who has had to run the Abingdon airfield route with wind blowing in their face will tell you.
I'm not sure how they link the MSFT to the mile and half, I'm alot better at the MSFT although I pass both, I normally last longer on the MSFT than those who beat me on the mile and half route.
As long as the Wet Globe Bulb Temperature was in range (in other words, it isn't too hot or humid), you can run the PFT. Wind helps cool it down!

Lits
 
#10
As long as the Wet Globe Bulb Temperature was in range (in other words, it isn't too hot or humid), you can run the PFT. Wind helps cool it down!

Lits
So its heat that matters (Rather than the hurricane force wind blowing against you)?
 
#13
It's merely an expedient. Where there are really good reasons for the 1.5 NOT being done, the MSFT provides a comparable cardiovascular test to enable a full PFT to be undertaken.

@chunkie100, I've seen decent runners fail an MSFT because they psyched themselves out. Or bottled it in other words.
 
#14
It's merely an expedient. Where there are really good reasons for the 1.5 NOT being done, the MSFT provides a comparable cardiovascular test to enable a full PFT to be undertaken.
My bold, I don't think it does, I reckon its a completely different type of test. To do a MSFT you have to get progressively faster but to the timings of the bleeps. The mile and a half you can sprint a hundred meter walk 50 (16 times) you can run a constant 7 minute mile, you can do the first half in 4 minutes and cruise the rest or take the first half easy and sprint the last half.
Although I find the MSFT easier there is only one way of passing it where as with the mile and a half you can do cartwheels so long as your total time is 10.30.
 
#15
I would guess that the metrological opt-out also relates to snow. Tricky to run 1.5 miles if there's a foot of snow on the ground (at least I always wimp out, pleading my poor worn-out ankles).
 
#16
As ever, the VO2Max requirements are the key to comparing the two:

the RNFT Pass standard for a 25 year male is 2.4km in 11.38 or level 9.4; respectively a VO2Max of 45 and 44.5

ExRx.net: Distance Run
Multistage Fitness Test Table

However, it doesn't seem to be scalable (i.e. it requires a higher VO2Max to get an excellent score in the MSFT than the 2.4km run). I've no doubt some PTI-wallah will be along to tell us the reason for the disparity.
 
#17
Does your MSFT time in any way co-relate to your run time? I.E a "good" time for a male aged 30-34 on the run is between 11.02 and 10.29 the co relating time for MSFT is 10.2.
Statistically, yes. The RUC introduced this test to the military, way back when. The attraction was the mixed sex and age group classifications. I ran both tests on the same folks over a period of a few years and noted that there was a gnat's knacker of a difference between their gym performance and their outdoor run, health and general willingness taken into account of course.

There is a technique to it which centres around 'foot strikes' ie driving off using alternative feet at each 'end'. ( hope that makes sense ) The test is more that a combat indicator to cardio fitness.
 
#18
I posted a thread here, called what is fitness? Which is similar to your question about are some people better suited to different testing methods doesn't mean you are not fit in other ways!
CP, it's not 'fitness' per se but - 'fitness for role'. The BFT / CFT were refined as the theory of getting troops to the battlefront was revised. As you are a soldier first and a tradesman second, MOD Army rationalised a MINIMUM fitness test to ensure troops were at a perceived level of fitness for the fight. The side effect of introducing this 'legal minimum' prevented units from binning soldiers, sometimes out of the service, as a result of an over zealous CO's views on his fitness requirements.

As an example, I can recall Commacchio's group emphasis on upper body strength. The troops were required to jumar up the void between the oil rig supports, wearing weighty ops vests. That was a specific 'fitness for role' requirement for that unit but not for a RGJ battallion on Op Banner....................... you see where I'm coming from I trust.
 
C

CivPlod

Guest
#19
Yeah, I know what you mean. I can obviously make the standard, I come in as I say on the 11 min mark, and on the MSFT hit 9.5. The CFT, no probs tabbing with weight. I'm just a shit runner.
 

icecold

Clanker
Kit Reviewer
#20
I actually got round to doing my little experiment, repeated it several times with both TA and civvies from my gym. The results were pretty much as expected with both groups. Some people managed to "pass" the 2.4km run and struggled with the MSFT, and vice versa. There were some interesting anomalies in that there was a very good civvi runner who breezed the 2.4km, in a time of 6 minutes 30 seconds, yet struggled to get to level 9.6 in the MSFT. And equally someone who managed level 11 on the MSFT but could only do the run in a 13 minute plus time.
 

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