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MTP for recce platoons?

#1
Hi guys,

I've recently seen this video:

3 Mercian 'go to ground' in Germany | British Forces News

It's got me thinking, MTP is designed to be "good" in all environments. The MoD has aid that this is what the modern British millitary requires. True, the ordinary soldier may be fine with this, but what about close recce troops? Surely they need PERFECT camoflauge for the enironment in which they are operating? After all their job is to be perfect at camoflauge. Surely "good" camoflauge isn't good enough?

When on excersise in Caerwent training area at night, I stumbled across some 1 rifles bods wearing MTP. They looked like they were wearing chefs whites! Someone told me that this was because I hadn't been used to seeing MTP and it was just my eyes. But surely, if I wasn't used to it, neither was the enemy!

I honestly don't believe that MTP works in the European environment and that the MoD's claims that it is never dangerous is a false statement.

Is there anyone else that believes that close recce troops may be in danger when operating in a temperate climate?
 

Guns

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#2
No your right. It is obvious that all that trialling and scientific work was wasted.

Edited for the benefit of the OP. I was joking and taking the piss out of you.
 
#3
No there is nowt wrong with MTP.

If they are close enough to stumble upon your hide then it doesn't matter what manner of green-ish clothing you have on, that's why they build hides in the first place to stop people seeing them from a way off and coming looking for them. DPM was no better up close either and stands out like a sore thumb from a distance as well as it looks almost black, especialy when wet.

If you need individual troops to be almost invisible to the level where you have to step on you to see you then they send out the sniper teams who also function in the battlefield recce role. A Recce platoon is in the business of building longer term hides for radio stag and long term observation. They dont need a ghille suit for that.

It's Friday by the way, should the OP not be on cadet camp?
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#4
Is there anyone else that believes that close recce troops may be in danger when operating in a temperate climate?
No and I suggest that in the future you suggest you stick to voicing your opinion on military matters whilst sat in your locker, alone.

Recce soldiers know what they're doing when it comes to cam and concealment.
 
#5
DPM was no better up close either
QUOTE]

British DPM was designed with small shapes compared to other camoflauges of other nations so that it would be effective up close. Even at distance, DPM still works a damn sight better than MTP. And what if you have a situation where you have to get close to the enemy position?

Take Celini village in Sennybridge training area, for example. If you have to get close to set up an OP, you are clearly visible. If you are moving at night, again, up to about 1km away, you are still visible in a temperate climate. I think that when making MTP, they focused on making it work in the desert, and not enough in a temperate climate. MTP could have been something good, but they seem to have spoiled it.
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#7
And you still skip over the point that recce soldiers know what they're on when it comes to cam and concealment.
 
#9
DPM was no better up close either
QUOTE]

British DPM was designed with small shapes compared to other camoflauges of other nations so that it would be effective up close. Even at distance, DPM still works a damn sight better than MTP. And what if you have a situation where you have to get close to the enemy position?

Take Celini village in Sennybridge training area, for example. If you have to get close to set up an OP, you are clearly visible. If you are moving at night, again, up to about 1km away, you are still visible in a temperate climate. I think that when making MTP, they focused on making it work in the desert, and not enough in a temperate climate. MTP could have been something good, but they seem to have spoiled it.
That would be because it's on top of a bare arse hill you muppet.

You build a ******* hide at night you *********, it's a shallow trench system with sleeping cells dug off to one side and an admin area as well, you cover the top with hessian and other cam. If you had actually ever trained for OP's in Sennybridge you might know that you child, you will find the remains of that type of hide on the edges of most blocks of forrest, there will be others dotted about in the open as well.

If you think can see 1K at night in sennybridge in the dark then you must have superhuman powers you knobber and dont go on about night vision either as MTP is a pixelated scheme that screws with starlight scopes, which funnily enough rely on pixels as well to make up the image.

Not that you can see 30 yards in the first place when the fog comes down after dark, then you just get a better view of the fog through a CWS.
 
#10
That would be because it's on a bare arse hill you muppet....


If you think can see 1K at night in sennybridge in the dark then you must have superhuman powers .

Firstly, it comes as part of the commisioning course to contruct on OP on that hill. Therefor you're able to be seen.

Secondly, I didn't say i could see 1K at night. I said in the day it can be seen up to 1k. at night it looks bright white.
 
#11
In that linked video the soldier comments "You've got to be carefull, being a light colour you don't want to go against a dark background"

Is this not exactly the same proglem they had with desert DPM in the green zone? And they had a UOR to get that sorted. They're back to square 1 in the temperate climate.
 
#12
yes the soldier may do, but the MoD and the treasury clearly don't.
I find myself in the evil position of having to agree with a Grenadier (sorry Crow Bag - won't happen again).

Temperate DPM was mostly bonk, especially in bright foliage and wet weather - it was far too dark. In fact, I've found desert kit to be more effective on Salisbury Plain in the summer / autumn. The MTP used in PCS is a striking improvement, IMHO, even if the kit itself is a bit odd. Some of the CS95 cut hot weather issue I've seen is rather faded - perhaps that was what you saw. Or sheep.

It's entirely likely that neither HM Treasury nor MoD know much about hiding in bushes (and why on earth should they?), but fortunately for us, the trials, development and selection were done by soldiers. In the long list of ballsed-up procurement decisions, surprisingly few seem to centre on the kit we wear. Funny that.
 
#13
MTP seems better than DPM for MOST situations, it does not look bright white at nighttime. Has the OP actually got any experience whatsoever of night work?
 
#16
Was the reference to the commissioning course an attempt to hold some gravity in an argument that you are losing.

If your argument doesnt work it wont work any better due to your commmission.
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#19
I could be mistaken however I was at RMAS for two years and don't remember any subsurface OPs ever being put in on any of the exercises I worked on.
 
#20
OTC more like.

Which explains why he doesnt have a chick to be shagging on a friday night instead of regailing us with his non -existant military expertise.

LET US MAKE THIS CLEAR - BEING MIDDLE CLASS AND STUDYING FOR A SHIT DEGREE DOES NOT MAKE YOU AN EXPERT ON EVERY SINGLE ISSUE THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN WORKED UPON BY PEOPLE FAR MORE QUALIFIED THAN YOUR SELF.
 

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