MTDs......how many?

#1
My unit are stuck on what seems to be an almost pointless 27 day's. I am fortunate this year for a variety of reasons, but for those who are not tough choices need to be made about what training to do and where to do it.

Is 27 an unusually low figure?

Slightly off topic, but if the MOD needs funds for MTD's in the face of growing Government cutbacks they need look no further than the huge waste which is H&S at Blandford Camp. Tens of thousands of pounds wasted every year just to justify some jobsworths existance (An ex RN TA/Royal Family hater) his various plots take up 40% of my time as a civil servant not to mention many others and its not even my primary job.

Factor in the tons of wasted printing, meetings and insprections. Multiply that throughout every Military establishment and there is enough money for a decent number of MTD's and probably a Reserve pension as well.

Cardinal
 
#2
27 MTDs is the start level for a trained TA soldier (31 for a recruit), it is set at 27 as this is the requirement for you to qualify for your bounty. This can be extended to 50 by your OC, and further extended as authority rises up the CoC if you are needed to complete VTOD for whatever reason.
 
#3
JD150 said:
27 MTDs is the start level for a trained TA soldier (31 for a recruit), it is set at 27 as this is the requirement for you to qualify for your bounty. This can be extended to 50 by your OC, and further extended as authority rises up the CoC if you are needed to complete VTOD for whatever reason.
Yes I know that. But its still far too few days for effective training, both as indviduals and as a unit. Because something "is the way it is" does not mean its right.

Cardinal.
 
#4
We are on 27 as well, however that is a rough guideline not a limit. Basically it comes down to unit budgets.

In laymans terms, as was explained to my by my Sqn 2ic, we have been given a certain amount of money for the training year based on the number of soldiers on our books. When you convert that money to MTD's it comes out as 27/man. However (and this is the interesting part) that is based on an average of £80/MTD so for example you could have 2 private soldiers in for that £80 or 1 SNCO.

This early in the year nobody wants to be splashing MTD's around as units need to ensure they have enough left come next March to get people on trade/promotion courses who need them. I would however expect training restrictions put in place by units to ease up as the year progresses and the budgetary picture changes.

I dont know whether the £80/MTD came from Bde or was used as a convenient figure by my own unit.
 
#5
Cardinal said:
My unit are stuck on what seems to be an almost pointless 27 day's. I am fortunate this year for a variety of reasons, but for those who are not tough choices need to be made about what training to do and where to do it.

Is 27 an unusually low figure?

Cardinal
Welcome to the Graduated Commitment Method - Basic allowance of MTDs for non deploying soldiers is 27, which includes a 15 day ATP. However the method will allow for extra days for other funded activities such as Community Engagement etc
 
#6
Welcome to the GCM, things will only change if your unit is on the plot for ops - otherwise watch your units implode.
 
#8
the_creature said:
Join the infantry if you want to do a real job. Most units are going on ops for the next 5 years so you wont have problems with MTD's.
Yes, but you have to be going on operations. We are mobilising 80 at the end of the year. I am not eligible, not enough service is one aspect but simply put trade training is the biggy for me and with that in mind, the only thing I should be doing with annual camp. If that can't be the case then it will literally take me years to be even in a position to do PDT. I'm in a total chicken and egg situation. I can't put my name down for a tour because I'm too young in service and I therefore can't get extra MTDs to do my trade training. That also assumes I will never go on another field exercise again until I'm down for ops.

I've asked about this and none of my COC have got a straight answer about the GCM, most of the officers appear not to even know what it is.
 
#9
WhatAmIDoing said:
the_creature said:
Join the infantry if you want to do a real job. Most units are going on ops for the next 5 years so you wont have problems with MTD's.
Yes, but you have to be going on operations. We are mobilising 80 at the end of the year. I am not eligible, not enough service is one aspect but simply put trade training is the biggy for me and with that in mind, the only thing I should be doing with annual camp. If that can't be the case then it will literally take me years to be even in a position to do PDT. I'm in a total chicken and egg situation. I can't put my name down for a tour because I'm too young in service and I therefore can't get extra MTDs to do my trade training. That also assumes I will never go on another field exercise again until I'm down for ops.

I've asked about this and none of my COC have got a straight answer about the GCM, most of the officers appear not to even know what it is.
Have you already used up 27 MTD's this year, you only need 10-14 for a trade training camp, then put your name down.
 
#10
we got 32 days and I'm on the ops plot but the unit isnt so my MTD are up in the air at the moment,

doesn't halp my op com is our regular unit but our admin com is london dist, :(

woop woop for me :D
 
#11
the_creature said:
WhatAmIDoing said:
the_creature said:
Join the infantry if you want to do a real job. Most units are going on ops for the next 5 years so you wont have problems with MTD's.
Yes, but you have to be going on operations. We are mobilising 80 at the end of the year. I am not eligible, not enough service is one aspect but simply put trade training is the biggy for me and with that in mind, the only thing I should be doing with annual camp. If that can't be the case then it will literally take me years to be even in a position to do PDT. I'm in a total chicken and egg situation. I can't put my name down for a tour because I'm too young in service and I therefore can't get extra MTDs to do my trade training. That also assumes I will never go on another field exercise again until I'm down for ops.

I've asked about this and none of my COC have got a straight answer about the GCM, most of the officers appear not to even know what it is.
Have you already used up 27 MTD's this year, you only need 10-14 for a trade training camp, then put your name down.
For ops, I can't, as I said "not enough service is one aspect". I need another 4 weeks of courses to get traded (ok, let's call it 6 day weeks) so another 24 MTDs to get traded. So, burn 10 days a year on drill nights that's another 2 years to get trade trained and be able to put my name down for a tour. It gives me sufficient leeway to maybe do 1 field exercise per year.

It does rather say to new joiners, sorry chap, want to go on tour? Talk to you again in 3 years. Lovely.
 
#12
Why not just join the infantry then. do your CIC and DIE weekends including a battle camp before PDT and your good to go on tour. You will get paid for it so why not?
 
#13
the_creature said:
Why not just join the infantry then. do your CIC and DIE weekends including a battle camp before PDT and your good to go on tour. You will get paid for it so why not?
Can you give it a rest? There's more to the army than just the infantry.

msr
 
#14
WhatAmIDoing said:
the_creature said:
Join the infantry if you want to do a real job. Most units are going on ops for the next 5 years so you wont have problems with MTD's.
Yes, but you have to be going on operations. We are mobilising 80 at the end of the year. I am not eligible, not enough service is one aspect but simply put trade training is the biggy for me and with that in mind, the only thing I should be doing with annual camp. If that can't be the case then it will literally take me years to be even in a position to do PDT. I'm in a total chicken and egg situation. I can't put my name down for a tour because I'm too young in service and I therefore can't get extra MTDs to do my trade training. That also assumes I will never go on another field exercise again until I'm down for ops.

I've asked about this and none of my COC have got a straight answer about the GCM, most of the officers appear not to even know what it is.
For a start it's called the Graduated Commitment Mechanism.

It was intended as a budgetary management process for assessing appropriate MTDs in the build up to mobilisation, reflecting a 'steady state' of training for those already recruited and not deploying. Interpretation is the key, and of course, in the current environment, it has been taken as a means by which the overall amount of MTDs can be limited by the budget holders.

27 Days is the minimum required in order to be effective. Not the maximum. However the devil is in the detail and no-one has read the detail.
 
#15
Hyperion said:
27 Days is the minimum required in order to be effective. Not the maximum. However the devil is in the detail and no-one has read the detail.
And where can this detail of which you speak be read?

msr
 
#16
the_creature said:
Why not just join the infantry then. do your CIC and DIE weekends including a battle camp before PDT and your good to go on tour. You will get paid for it so why not?
I did join the infantry but it was so organizationally poor (At Regimental level) I practically had to roster myself onto phase 1. After 3 goes at getting my kit sized properly they closed my detachment I decided to transfer. I tried to get in touch with The Rifles and attended a central London location to meet one of the PSIs. I stood outside for a while and then tried doing a bit of a ring around. Turns out he had been called away at short notice, fair enough I thought but after phoning back a few times in the days and weeks after none of my calls were ever returned.......


.....and I didn't want to join the Paras.
 
#17
Hyperion said:
WhatAmIDoing said:
the_creature said:
Join the infantry if you want to do a real job. Most units are going on ops for the next 5 years so you wont have problems with MTD's.
Yes, but you have to be going on operations. We are mobilising 80 at the end of the year. I am not eligible, not enough service is one aspect but simply put trade training is the biggy for me and with that in mind, the only thing I should be doing with annual camp. If that can't be the case then it will literally take me years to be even in a position to do PDT. I'm in a total chicken and egg situation. I can't put my name down for a tour because I'm too young in service and I therefore can't get extra MTDs to do my trade training. That also assumes I will never go on another field exercise again until I'm down for ops.

I've asked about this and none of my COC have got a straight answer about the GCM, most of the officers appear not to even know what it is.
For a start it's called the Graduated Commitment Mechanism.

It was intended as a budgetary management process for assessing appropriate MTDs in the build up to mobilisation, reflecting a 'steady state' of training for those already recruited and not deploying. Interpretation is the key, and of course, in the current environment, it has been taken as a means by which the overall amount of MTDs can be limited by the budget holders.

27 Days is the minimum required in order to be effective. Not the maximum. However the devil is in the detail and no-one has read the detail.
I stand corrected regarding the name. It would be ok though if the COC could tell me what it's supposed to mean, in principal and in detail but they don't appear to be able to do so at present.
 
#18
msr said:
the_creature said:
Why not just join the infantry then. do your CIC and DIE weekends including a battle camp before PDT and your good to go on tour. You will get paid for it so why not?
Can you give it a rest? There's more to the army than just the infantry.

msr
Not much hope if your a stab though and want to get paid these days.

Edited to add: msr how many training exercises has your unit done this year?
get a grip
 
#19
I'd quite happily bin my other hobby in favour of doing this if I could the courses I needed as C1, but they cost themselves to run so it's not just about paying troops, it's about reducing the running costs of fewer days training.
 
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