Mrs May - whither (or wither) the Tory Party

One can easily become the other though it tends to act one way only. The major exception of nations being Greece.
Indeed... Spain 1939 - 75 under Franco and then back again.

Not a lot in it if you consider Germany 1933. After a democratic election, Hitler was appointed Chancellor and proceeded to 'democratucally' introduce 'The Enabling Act' of March 1933 which effectively transformed te democracy into a dictatorship.
What do you mean, 'not a lot in it'? You even say, 'effectively transformed the democracy into a dictatorship'. i'd venture that those who lived through Hitler's dictatorship and survived into democracy may have felt there was a lot in it... those that lived through the communist regime of the eastern bloc may have felt there was a huge difference between dictatorship and democracy.

You are perhaps confusing the act of transformation from one state to the other with the huge disparity between the two states.

Think of light and dark... easy to transform a windowless room from one to the other but the two conditions have no similarities.
 
Indeed... Spain 1939 - 75 under Franco and then back again.


What do you mean, 'not a lot in it'? You even say, 'effectively transformed the democracy into a dictatorship'. i'd venture that those who lived through Hitler's dictatorship and survived into democracy may have felt there was a lot in it... those that lived through the communist regime of the eastern bloc may have felt there was a huge difference between dictatorship and democracy.

You are perhaps confusing the act of transformation from one state to the other with the huge disparity between the two states.

Think of light and dark... easy to transform a windowless room from one to the other but the two conditions have no similarities.
My point was intended to illustrate, in an Orwellian sense, that there may be little 'travel' between the two states - as I think you alude to. The repercussions on the other hand,, I fully agree, were enormous..

ETA I await the outcome of the governments attempted deceit of parliament and people with interest - different and incomparable situations, but the application nonetheless of the same basic process. Makes the 'news' quite anticipatory.
 
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Not sure you have seen this, it's taken off Guidos site and is the Conservative Home result - in house Tory survey.
The other thing of note is International Development Secretary Penny Mordaunt has had a busy morning following dozens of local Conservative association accounts on Twitter. Is this the 2018 equivalent of installing banks of telephone lines..?
This is I think a precursor to a Leadership bid if the key Brexit vote is a total disaster and she is monumentally drubbed!
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Penny M may be working out if she has a chance with a leadership challenge, but BJ has been awfully quiet lately so he may very well be further ahead with courting favour.
 
So any bets on how long she lasts?

I’d like to say immediately after the vote, but I suspect she will be in post in January still
 

Auld-Yin

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Penny M may be working out if she has a chance with a leadership challenge, but BJ has been awfully quiet lately so he may very well be further ahead with courting favour.
You cant be watching much TV news as BoJo has been on quite a lot, including a speech to the DUP conference and several interviews.
 
You cant be watching much TV news as BoJo has been on quite a lot, including a speech to the DUP conference and several interviews.
Saw the DUP speech, I even put it on here, but I've not seen any TV interviews and I watch both Sky News and BBC News quite often. Normally both channels would repeat anything BJ says ad nauseum.
 
I’ve just cast my vote on the daily torygraph question ‘should she resign this month?’

95% of respondents said ‘yup’
 
He should have saved his money. If it came to a leadership election, he hasn't a chance. His Tory colleagues (even the pro-Brexit ones) have been overpowered by the reek of desperate personal ambition coming off him.
As opposed to the utter lack of personal ambition displayed by every other MP in Parliament? Right...

The attached Guido link makes a compelling argument:

The Boris Paradox: Hated by the Elite, Loved by Voters -

"Boris is detested by his former colleagues in the political media. The overwhelmingly remain-backing political class will never forgive him for leading the Leave campaign to success. The broadsheets traduce him every day. The political editors of the tabloids look for any excuse to give him a kicking. Yet only last month he was once again found to be the most popular leading politician in England…"
 
As opposed to the utter lack of personal ambition displayed by every other MP in Parliament? Right...

The attached Guido link makes a compelling argument:

The Boris Paradox: Hated by the Elite, Loved by Voters -

"Boris is detested by his former colleagues in the political media. The overwhelmingly remain-backing political class will never forgive him for leading the Leave campaign to success. The broadsheets traduce him every day. The political editors of the tabloids look for any excuse to give him a kicking. Yet only last month he was once again found to be the most popular leading politician in England…"
Londonistan voted him on then look what took over from him. Same voters.

Like it or not he will unify the people. The politicians are an irrelevance. They make little difference anyway.........
 
As opposed to the utter lack of personal ambition displayed by every other MP in Parliament? Right...

The attached Guido link makes a compelling argument:

The Boris Paradox: Hated by the Elite, Loved by Voters -

"Boris is detested by his former colleagues in the political media. The overwhelmingly remain-backing political class will never forgive him for leading the Leave campaign to success. The broadsheets traduce him every day. The political editors of the tabloids look for any excuse to give him a kicking. Yet only last month he was once again found to be the most popular leading politician in England…"
Well, all I can say is that I am a Brexiteer (but not a Tory supporter or voter), not a politician and not a member of any elite and I think that the man is a supreme oaf. As far as Brexit is concerned, he was entirely a johnny-come-(very) lately to the cause and his belated commitment to leaving the EU was a calculated move as part of his personal advancement strategy. He could just as easily have gone the other way and would have had it suited his purposes.

You might find an unscientific poll obtained by a Tory fringe blog using uncertain methods 'compelling'. I don't.
 

Auld-Yin

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He should have saved his money. If it came to a leadership election, he hasn't a chance. His Tory colleagues (even the pro-Brexit ones) have been overpowered by the reek of desperate personal ambition coming off him.
That might be different if the vote is opened up to the membership. People are getting a tad pissed off with MPs and their shenanigans so trust in selecting a leader will probably not lie in Westminster.
 
I've never been a Boris fan, far from it in fact, but out of the current bunch on either side of the House he'd get my vote.
Oddly enough all of the CS that work for him rate him highly. I certainly liked him, he had the Churchillian approach to problems, declare an aim, promise to deliver and then throw the right people at it to ensure it was delivered!
 
That might be different if the vote is opened up to the membership. People are getting a tad pissed off with MPs and their shenanigans so trust in selecting a leader will probably not lie in Westminster.
Be nice if it happened, the Mp's dont trust their own constituencies so are unlikely to relinquish control!
 
Oddly enough all of the CS that work for him rate him highly. I certainly liked him, he had the Churchillian approach to problems, declare an aim, promise to deliver and then throw the right people at it to ensure it was delivered!
Wasn't there some phase of Churchills career where some elder statesmen said 'It's too early for Winston' acknowledging that he would attain PM status at some future point but, at that time, it wasn't suitable.
I'm wondering whether it may be 'too early for Boris' (although I'd hate to think 'post Corbyn' could become a prospect).
 

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