Mrs May - whither (or wither) the Tory Party

If Teresa May falls, who replaces her? I cannot think of any senior Tory who will not offend and upset large parts of the party. The idealogues need to wind their needs in, accept that BREXIT is happening, the clock is ticking away, and also that the UK cannot get everything we want from the Eurocrooks, and let the pragmatists get to work.

Are there any public details of the supposed deal with Brussels? Just how bad is it?
 
If Teresa May falls, who replaces her? I cannot think of any senior Tory who will not offend and upset large parts of the party. The idealogues need to wind their needs in, accept that BREXIT is happening, the clock is ticking away, and also that the UK cannot get everything we want from the Eurocrooks, and let the pragmatists get to work.

Are there any public details of the supposed deal with Brussels? Just how bad is it?
I could not find an online anything paraphrasing even bullet points...yet.
And this is the rub...it's nearly 600 pages of (I assume) intricate in depth submissions and sausage sizzling that would take even a speed reader days to digest to form initial safe conclusions...in the company of international law eagles etc. There will be some Ok...but the "bad bits" could be bloody awful...who knows? Anyone?

It is reported there are no more key negotiations to be had, or would be entertained.
Not really a lot to keep PMTM then in theory apart from her, in my observations, her apparent sociopath fuelled ego but to whom would they hand over the reins? Who would do better now it's all over bar the shouting....or is it? She can "La la la I don't hear you" till the cows come home now but she is almost certainly going to have to listen when this "deal" is comprehensively (cross-party + what... 80 + odd Cons?) kicked into the long grass in Parliament, as it surely will.

If ultimately the Cons fall (if) there was a GE after March who or what replaces them?
I'm sure we shudder to think. I am of the belief JC would need to step down as well and hopefully someone with real gravitas steps up. A political thug in a tie...or a skirt.. Who though?
Labour needs a thug-in-tie as well preferably devoid of self promotion as does the SNP, for whom I have voted for 25 years. There just seems to be a paucity of heavy hitting no-nonsense power brokers right now who would stand up to Joe Public's scrutiny.

I've said before in ARRSE, I'm stuck for who to vote for in future years.
In a trustworthy Party Wilderness so to speak....including the SNP at the moment.
 
Last edited:
I've said before in ARRSE, I'm stuck for who to vote for in future years.
So you move down the scale of who to vote for.
1: Someone who you agree with in ideals.
2: Someone Competent
3: Someone semi-competent
4: Sod it, roll a dice.

The scary thing is for the last 20 years or so we've had a series of three's.
 
So you move down the scale of who to vote for.
1: Someone who you agree with in ideals.
2: Someone Competent
3: Someone semi-competent
4: Sod it, roll a dice.

The scary thing is for the last 20 years or so we've had a series of three's.
Well put. That's my issue.
 
Sky reporting the Tory whips have been recalled amid speculation numbers have either been reached already or are very near to being so.

In theory the confidence vote, if it goes against TM, would punt her from being Leader of the Tory party but not being PM, a halfway house that might suit the waverers perhaps?
The best thing is a wounded PM, with brexiters in the party delaying any legislation and disrupting government until a no deal is the only deal

She is only there because she threatens that her 'deal' is better than having a Labour government, and Tory MPs losing their seats. That's probably inevitable whatever happens now

They need to play her at her own game and threaten to bring down the government until they get what they want, then she loses the only hand she has
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
Last night the concrete shutters were rolled back and first Peter Bottomley and then Ken Clarke were given spots in front of the cameras.

The catch with finding a post-Brexit leader is the amount of legacy Heathite Remainiac pro-EU deadwood inhabiting the senior reaches of the party.
 
If Teresa May falls, who replaces her? I cannot think of any senior Tory who will not offend and upset large parts of the party. The idealogues need to wind their needs in, accept that BREXIT is happening, the clock is ticking away, and also that the UK cannot get everything we want from the Eurocrooks, and let the pragmatists get to work.

Are there any public details of the supposed deal with Brussels? Just how bad is it?
Are there not two separate but overlapping issues? What to do about the deal, and what to do about PMTM?

If the deal was acceptable to the party as a whole, no NC vote and she would be putting it to the House in December in the hope that she'd get enough cross party support for a majority.

The question therefore is, can she first get it through the Party? And there the subordinate question becomes, for every MP:

Which choice to make and what's in it for me?

The choices between this deal, no deal, or no Brexit.
 
So you move down the scale of who to vote for.
1: Someone who you agree with in ideals.
2: Someone Competent
3: Someone semi-competent
4: Sod it, roll a dice.

The scary thing is for the last 20 years or so we've had a series of three's.
I speculated some time ago on here that this might be a seismic change in U.K. Politics similar to that of 1922. Are you a pan-European or a 'Little Englander?'*

A party realignment might still be on the cards.

* Other UK nationalities are available. For now.
 
I speculated some time ago on here that this might be a seismic change in U.K. Politics similar to that of 1922. Are you a pan-European or a 'Little Englander?'*

A party realignment might still be on the cards.

* Other UK nationalities are available. For now.
There will always be pan-europeans and little englanders but not all of us fit neatly into either category.

For myself I'm an Englander living in Scotland with no beef with Europeans, just the EU.
 
There will always be pan-europeans and little englanders but not all of us fit neatly into either category.

For myself I'm an Englander living in Scotland with no beef with Europeans, just the EU.
Indeed, but - as is evidenced by the last three years - one's position on our relationship with the EU is more immediately relevant to one's politics than the traditional 'class' divide which defined Labour and the Tories. As can be seen by the Brexit/Remain split in both parties.

The emergence of a pro/anti-Europe party divide would, at a stroke, solve the problem of who to vote for.
 
I'm wondering if TM hasn't deliberately created a situation whereby remaining is the best option by ensuring leaving terms are so unsuitable as to make it next to worthless.
No wonder she switched off to the voices around her to make it happen. Curious.
 
Mrs May is a supporter of the EU and a Remainer as we all know. Hypothetical I know, but come the end of March 2019 and we have reached the point where a no deal exit is the only option, is she just going to shrug her shoulders and say 'well I tried!'? Or will duplicity be fully exposed?
I do find it baffling when her Lancaster House speech said that no deal is better than a bad deal.
If she thinks what she has now isn't a bad deal then the mind boggles.
 
She thinks anything that is really Brexit is a bad deal, so her only solutions are to offer a worse deal than remaining

She's turned out to be as trust worthy as Jeremy Corbyn
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I hope that's the case, but the alternative is that Steve Baker is trying to drum up the last few votes to get over the threshold. The Tories are in deep $hit if the threshold isn't reached.

May has first to be defeated in a vote of confidence. Until recently she would have been supported by the Remain wing - and possibly won it. I think after seeing May's 'deal' enough of the Remain wing now realise May is a huge liability and will vote against her.

May was doomed the moment her deal became public.

Wordsmith
 
Indeed, but - as is evidenced by the last three years - one's position on our relationship with the EU is more immediately relevant to one's politics than the traditional 'class' divide which defined Labour and the Tories. As can be seen by the Brexit/Remain split in both parties.

The emergence of a pro/anti-Europe party divide would, at a stroke, solve the problem of who to vote for.
Sorry I think your wrong (Polite for saying your talking bollocks :) ). There are those within both of the main parties that want to stay in the EU and there are others within both main parties that want to leave the EU therefore NOT immediately relevant to ones politics. Class divide no longer exists, and hasn't for many years, except in the minds of those who wish to perpetuate it.
 
Sorry I think your wrong (Polite for saying your talking bollocks :) ). There are those within both of the main parties that want to stay in the EU and there are others within both main parties that want to leave the EU therefore NOT immediately relevant to ones politics. Class divide no longer exists, and hasn't for many years, except in the minds of those who wish to perpetuate it.
Yes, I'd also say that he most certainly is. Opinions on Brexit (in England, at least) are most certainly not divided along traditional party lines. That is one of the reasons why the problem has become so unmanageable and chaotic.

It also makes a nonsense of Labour's claim that a solution to the impasse is by way of a GE. Labour merely sees it as an opportunity to press for a GE that they anticipate they now have a chance of winning.

A GE, by its nature, would alway to be fought on the basis of a multi-issue manifesto, not on the single issue of Brexit. The two major political parties, in any case, are internally riven by disagreement on Brexit. There is no way that they could discern the views on Brexit based on the result of a GE.

John McDonnell also appears to think that they would be able to renegotiate a deal if they came to power. The EU have made it abundantly clear that this will not happen. The final deal is what is already on the table. There will be no more negotiation.

However, I do not agree with you that the class divide no longer exists. The delineations may have altered somewhat over the years, but it has certainly not disappeared.
 

New Posts

Latest Threads

Top