MPs urge sanctions against Israel

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3459449.stm


A committee of MPs is urging the government and European Union to impose economic sanctions against Israel.
The Commons International Development Committee says Israeli restrictions on Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza have led to terrible living conditions.

The MPs said they understood Israel's safety fears, and condemned suicide bombings as "morally abhorrent".

But measures such as the West Bank security barrier undermined the chance of a future Palestinian state.
 

jash

War Hero
#2
these people should be made live in israel and see what its like living in fear and then see if they are against the wall, instead of going back to there semis in the midlands :evil:
 
#3
And then for balance, presumably, they should spend an equal amount of time living in a Palestinian refugee camp or an occupied area....


msr
 
#4
I think some of the right hon members may find out about the horror of suicide bombings soon enough. Especially if some of the fundementalists that are loose in this country take offence at something the Govt decieds. I mean we've had British Born suicide Bombers in Israel and Afganistan. How long till one of the crazies decides to stay at home when he goes to meet allah and the 72 virgins.
Have absoultly no problem with them doing it as long as they go somewhere quiet were they won't hurt anyone else.
 
#5
Well said jash!

I’ve been lucky (?) enough to live in Israel twice, once as a 6 year old and then as a Uni student. Both times have been during periods of relative calm so it was a nice easy going place, however...

As a 6 year old my first day at school was taken up in what we do if we have..

...A gunman on the premises.
...A hostage situation.
...A riot.
...A bomb threat.
...An explosion.
...An air attack.

Any of you got 6-year-old kids? Try explaining these to them and not frighten the life out of them. I slept in the bomb shelter at home for about a week!

As a Uni student I lived in Jerusalem, when I went out I had to leave a note pinned to the notice board, we had a map of areas we should never go. We had security briefings on safety, and updates on activities that may effect us on a weekly bases. Again I slept most nights in the bomb shelter.

Now many of you might say that’s you have felt like that, the fear and all, but I am a civilian. I never choose that fear to be visited on me.

Building walls? If your next door neighbour throw stones at you every time you went to walk out of your home what would you do?
 

jash

War Hero
#6
here here well said nurse
 
#7
bbc, whilst that is a pretty awful way to live your life. Perhaps you would consider the plight of a Palestian of the same age and potentially same socio-economic background.

As a 6 year old you wouldn't have to travel far from your home to school as your home is probably being lived in by an Israeli family and you have spent the first 6 years of your life in a squalid refugee camp. If you get to go to school you are one of the lucky ones.

If you were in one of the two camps in Lebanon you may not see your 7th birthday because the Israeli Army have decided that the best way to solve the problem of militant Islamic terrorism is to let the nutters who are their allies loose (akin to us cordoning off the Bogside and letting the UVF run riot).

As a Uni student, if you have any get up and go you will have left the region and gone to study elsewhere, where you will spread the word of what your life has been like up till now and thereby garnering the sympathy of most of the people you meet.

You may on the other hand have worked hard enough to be able to buy a small holding and farmed it in order to make money trading with the Israelis because you have resigned yourself to the fact that they are here to stay. But even then you may one morning wake to find that someone in Tel Aviv has allocated your land as a settlement and you are being given a matter of hours to pack your bags and get out.

I happen to think that the Wall is now the only answer but it has to be accompanied with a return of some lands and a withdrawal of the settlements.
 
#8
El_Pato said:
bbc, whilst that is a pretty awful way to live your life. Perhaps you would consider the plight of a Palestian of the same age and potentially same socio-economic background.

In that time period? The school was mixed; I was not allowed to go to a Jewish school, so many of my classmates who had the same pressures on them were both Israeli and Palestinian.
In this time period? I’ve been, not to the camps, but to villages near Nahariya in the northern region, to assess the medical provision need, I know first hand what a six-year-old can expect.
But the root isn't the here and now, it's based on what provisions are made to the Palestinian people post wall building.


As a 6 year old you wouldn't have to travel far from your home to school as your home is probably being lived in by an Israeli family and you have spent the first 6 years of your life in a squalid refugee camp. If you get to go to school you are one of the lucky ones.

I have no answer to this it is a fact that others have inflicted. I know of people who have gone to teach in the camps, a word I would also argue but for purely personal reasons, if you had a group of people in Britain, that as MRS suggested started to send out suicide bombers, teenage boys, women with young children at home, what would you do?

If you were in one of the two camps in Lebanon you may not see your 7th birthday because the Israeli Army have decided that the best way to solve the problem of militant Islamic terrorism is to let the nutters who are their allies loose (akin to us cordoning off the Bogside and letting the UVF run riot).

Black and Tans? Let’s not go there, history is my subject, not of the so-called 'troubles' but of a world in terror. So rather than look at the Irish issue can we look at the Kenyan women issue already rearing its ugly head, but perhaps another time when that hits the fan?

As a Uni student, if you have any get up and go you will have left the region and gone to study elsewhere, where you will spread the word of what your life has been like up till now and thereby garnering the sympathy of most of the people you meet.

I hope this is not an evangelical call to arms type of suggestion! But yes plight acknowledgement is a part of issue management. However I think sympathy is greatly lost by the well-documented focus that women and children can't get on buses to go to get pizza without it becoming a game of survival. And yes I do admit two sides to views, which is right?

You may on the other hand have worked hard enough to be able to buy a small holding and farmed it in order to make money trading with the Israelis because you have resigned yourself to the fact that they are here to stay. But even then you may one morning wake to find that someone in Tel Aviv has allocated your land as a settlement and you are being given a matter of hours to pack your bags and get out.

As were many Palestinian Jews in the 1920's and earlier. This is a historic struggle. And in truth will today change tomorrow? I don't know! All I know is how it felt to know fear, and if that fear is both sides of the wall then we have to settle for it. Rather fear and tension than bombs and death!

I happen to think that the Wall is now the only answer but it has to be accompanied with a return of some lands and a withdrawal of the settlements.

I think that goes without saying, but who negotiates peace when a gun is to their head? I think it has a long way to go and if the wall creates a sense of safety on both sides isn't it a start?
 
#9
bbc, thanks for a measured response to my slightly intemperate post. Personally I think the errors that led to this debacle are way back in the early part of the last century.

However, in the same way that the Israeli nation shouldn't be judged by the actions of the few nutters on that side, nor should the Palestians be characterised by the Suicide bombers.

The point is that the most powerful nation in the world gives its almost unconditional backing to the Israelis while the Palestinians are monumentally badly led, and funded only by people who see the war in religious terms making them a PR nightmare. However the actions of the Israelis who continue to expand into what remains of the Palestinian land whilst calling for peace negotiations make peace just as difficult as the actions of the Suicide bombers.

At the moment Israel has no pressure to reform. Perhaps sanctions would bring them to their senses. The Spams won't like it but never mind!
 
#10
El_Pato said:
bbc, thanks for a measured response to my slightly intemperate post. Personally I think the errors that led to this debacle are way back in the early part of the last century.

I should be stamping my foot and ranting, I am, after all, home sick...
poor me!

As to the origin of the problems in the Middle East, they have a timeline as old as the world, we as a nation of crusaders, or peacekeepers did not help the situation at any point in that historical land dispute.


However, in the same way that the Israeli nation shouldn't be judged by the actions of the few nutters on that side, nor should the Palestians be characterised by the Suicide bombers.

Neither sides are characterised by they zealot minority by sensible people. However the act of terror on any people will bring retribution, not only in this region but the world over and through time and belief. When any organisation acts on the civilian populous to bring the 'fight' to their door it is logic, based on our own past governments, to react by force.

The point is that the most powerful nation in the world gives its almost unconditional backing to the Israelis while the Palestinians are monumentally badly led, and funded only by people who see the war in religious terms making them a PR nightmare.

Yes and a laughable point it is that this nameless 'nation' will fight terrorism while funding so many terrorist organisations! As to the funding of Israel, it has committed, as has Britain to provide assistance in return for favours. In a world so dotted by enemies we have to take the strategy of ally when offered, but yes, we should govern that price a little better.

However the actions of the Israelis who continue to expand into what remains of the Palestinian land whilst calling for peace negotiations make peace just as difficult as the actions of the Suicide bombers.

This is a point of contention, land disputes are hard to settle especially when, as in Israel, you can be brought to 300 year old graves of both Israeli and Palestinian ancestors. Expansion of territories is inevitable in a world such as ours. Russian Jews and Jews who are no longer safe in the land of their birth, or those who feel their children’s religious and moral identity is in question are flocking to Israel, and Israel is a country that has no immigration vetting, if you are a Jew you are an Israeli. So they do have a vast land problem, and they are pushing the Palestinians, perhaps to the point of extinction in Israel....

At the moment Israel has no pressure to reform. Perhaps sanctions would bring them to their senses. The Spams won't like it but never mind!

I would impose sanctions on Israel. But I would need to see the sanctions and know of the long-term implications. A measured response.
 
#11
Sanctions are well and good but unless eveyone is involved (ie UN) then there no effective and could have the result of making things worse :( :?
 
#12
why not put a buffer zone in and get the a 3rd party to police it like Britain we seam to do all the other crap places in the world
 
#13
what not were in the neighbourhood and its on our way anyway :D
 
L

Lady_Landy

Guest
#14
blessed baby cakes said:
I would impose sanctions on Israel. But I would need to see the sanctions and know of the long-term implications. A measured response.
Progroms, persecution, The holocaust, terrorism and now sanctions too? 8O
Deep Joy
Oh who would be a Jew :evil:
 
#15
Progroms, persecution, The holocaust, terrorism and now sanctions too?
Deep Joy
Oh who would be a Jew
Ah now blessed baby cakes was only trying to give a view point lets not get to personal Lady_Landy
 
#16
nurse said:
why not put a buffer zone in and get the a 3rd party to police it like
Just like the Lebanese border, where the UN (a 3rd party) sits on its backside in a buffer type zone, but still attacks occur on Israel's northern border :!:
 
L

Lady_Landy

Guest
#17
jash said:
Progroms, persecution, The holocaust, terrorism and now sanctions too?
Deep Joy
Oh who would be a Jew
Ah now blessed baby cakes was only trying to give a view point lets not get to personal Lady_Landy
8O Not personal at all :?
I merely indicated that Jews have been through enough already 8O
 
#18
yes thats true, history aint been on their side, as soon as they got the nod from the big man it all went down hill, but what do you suggest to help the situation :?:
 
#19
I have to say I have alot of sympathy with the israelis. And would say the Palastinian authority under arafat is as big an obstical to peace as sharon. The problem is the current situation is another one of Bill Clintons quick fixes that has now with time unwound as everyone said it would. And of course his protagee the right on Tone has to push this through.
Arafats repeated refusal to confront terrorism has brought the whole middle east peace process to this point. Just like the bringing into government of unreformed terrorists has brought the Good Friday agreement to a grinding halt. and Guess what that another fine mess the Tony and Bill show created as well.
 
#20
surely then the wall is a good idea, since everything else has failed, segregate the two communities, I know its not ideal and i know the Palistinians are loosing land but if it saves lives..................
 

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