Moving down the ranks since 2003

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by polar, Jun 5, 2008.

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  1. Speaking to a few mates last week (yes I do move away from the computer :D ) and we all mentioned that although we'd been promoted since 2003.
    Our TA job seems to be going backwards, we are getting jobs back we'd stopped doing when we got our 2nd tapes.

    People keep mentioning to me the rank of Cpl, when was that phased out and what was it? Is it a local thing to indicate those selected to become Sgts?

    And whats wrong with being a Sgt, sounds like its a rank falling victim to some Dr Who plot. Here you are, 3 tapes and flash bang ... they've disappeared.

    Maybe its a Yorkshire/Signals thing
  2. I think a lot of its down to the shrinking RSigs TA (v)If there are not enough chaps out on a weekend I know that I'll be either det commander of the relay or covering the sasmc. now these are really both det commander jobs at lcpl level..problem is the lcpls are doing the crew jobs becuse there are no siggys.

    I had a new(ish) full screw turn to me last week and say they don't want to progress any further becuase of mess bills and the cost of mess dress. I however DO want to get further and although may be a tad hacked off at paying for something I'll ahrdly ever use, prefer that to been on the 3rd rung of the ladder all my lfe.

    Problem is I know as a snco who should in theory be running all the det commanders I most likely end a det commander. I'm pretty sure I can see the future for our regt right now.
  3. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Polar, as I wrote to Mr Tracey a while back:

    You seem very unhappy about the state of the TA Signals, especially its relationship with the Regular Corps. Why not come over to the Infantry?

    Seriously think about it! We have none of the problems you're always complaining about your present cap badge. We have a clear, defined purpose (closing with Chummy and killing him). We get to practice our trade pretty much every training weekend. Our relationship with our Regular battalions is becoming almost seamless. MATT training can easily be intergrated into our training exercises. We get to practice our trade on Operational tours.

    Go on, you know it makes sense!
  4. how does it work for rank and stuff though moving cap badges

    do the infantry recognise a signals full screw or would he have to start from scratch again?
  5. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    I'd say that they would look at you and say yes you are a siggie full screw, however you will need to do brecon to command in the field, you may end up keeping your rank but losing seniority untill you have brecon.
    It could all be seamless depending upon the inf unit and its vacancies ie a cpl in sigs pln vacant then you may slot straight in no questions asked.
    you would have to learn how to survive away from a bedford though!
  6. I think I know what Polar is on about.

    In the lesser Corps, people are promoted too quickly, leading to a lack of knowledge and experience with what they are doing.

    It also leads to a lack of availaility of appointments for the higher ranks.

    For example:

    A platoon set up which has 3 staffies 4 Sgts and a bucket load of JNCOs.

    One of the staffies does the Platoon Commander job and one the Platoon Sgt, another does section command and the Sgts do similiar. This becomes the norm as the juniors don't get the chance to learn for themselves. I suppose it can happen in trade specific situations.

    Is this what you meant?
  7. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer


    It may vary from unit to unit as to keeping your present rank, but ostensibly you can keep your stripes as long as you qualify for them in your new role within a certain time frame (2 years max). For you this will mean doing the Section Commanders' Tactics Course (the infamous Junior Brecon).

    I transfered back to the infantry from the Signals as a LCpl and had to do PJNCO and then (because I felt hard) put myself straight on Junior Brecon. The PJNCO cadre in Catterick is a two week course and can get pretty physical and mentally demanding at times. Comparing it to the couple of weekends I did for my R.Sigs cadre is like comparing apples and oranges. The course isn't a tick in the box attendance type either. Plenty of good Rfn fail it for not showing the leadership potential etc.

    Junior Brecon is an utter bitch. I'm sorry, there's really way of sugar coating that one. However it's not impossible by any means and as long as you convince yourself not to give up not matter what, then you'll be OK. For someone like yourself, doing SCTC (or indeed PJNCO) would be invaluable and I think you'd actually enjoy them and get a lot out of it. I certainly did!

    As for trade recognition, hmmm.... not really. I was a CNR Rad Op and figured that I'd slot right in to Inf Sig quals, but no, didn't quite work that way. If you do go to a Signals Platoon, they'll probably get you on some sort of conversion course/weekend/workbook/whatever no doubt and it if comms is your thing it might be the better option. The added bonus of Sigs Pln is that you won't have to go through the misery of Brecon to justify your 2nd Stripe. Can't remember where they do the RSJ courses, but needless to say it's not the ordeal that Junior Tac is.

    Pop over and have a chat with your local Infantry. If you're a fit eager beaver, they'll likely bite your hand off and do their utmost to fit you in. I knew a few TA Highlanders (as was then) from Aberdeen and they seemed like a decent crew. Like I said, go over and have a word, you've got nothing to lose. Good luck either way mate!
  8. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    My bold:Actually Junior Tac was supposed to be mandatory for substantive Cpl regardless of B trade quals in an Infantry Bn,not to do it because of role means that you do miss out on the grittier side of life in an infantry bn and as with all service personnel Soldier first tradesmen second applies even more so in an infantry Bn. You really should as an nco be capable of leading to the next level in the core role ie bayonets fixed and fighting.
    To use a B qual as a short cut to promotion is wrong especially in the TA.
    You need the time that you cant give up due to a day job to be good at what you do and even in a TA Bn all ncos should be able to lead to one rank above in an infantry platoon.
  9. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer


    Personally mate, I couldn't agree more with you. However that's the way things are at the moment, even the Anti-Tank Det Cmdrs Crse has become an easy ride. The one ray of hope however is in the PJNCO cadre (which every swinging dick has to go through to get his first tape no matter what role he's in) which is actually quite tough and does (or at least did) cover quite a bit of actually being a section IC.

    Here's another one for you. I found out not long ago that theoretically it is possible to be made up to Cpl on the strength of having a SAA Qual at the CO's discretion! Never heard of it being implemented though and can't imagine why any Inf CO would do something like that, but apparently the mechanism exists!
  10. So he can teach it maybe, like the RMQ as a lance jack you cant take the ranges that you hold the qualification for?
  11. I agree with stabtiffy2b. I've been on a dettys course where people had done all of 3 years in the TA. thats one year basic training one year trade and one year lcpl ( in theory ) I've also been on a class one course where the senior rank was a staffy at 6 years.

    Sometimes I wonder if its retention thats responsible
  12. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Mate, all Corps are lesser ... but deep down in your heart you already know that. :D

    Seriously though, I get your point. I remember popping into the RADCON at the Apod and noticing that all three Sigs Radio Operators were JNCOs. By all means pay them according to their trade skills, but do they really all warrant a command rank the equivalent of a section commander to talk on a radio?
  13. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    You can certainly take SAA lessons as a LCpl. RMQ is not an integral part of AASAA (TA) anyway. To get on that course you have to be Cpl.
  14. ugly

    ugly LE Moderator

    There is nothing wrong in having persons without rank teaching classes. I passed MoI at IJLB in 1981 and the principles broadly remain the same, edip and maintenance of the desire etc. Now I use some of the softly softly approach I learnt from the old and bold trades qualified lads in Bn to teach my courses, if the students look bored its because they are. My students pay me to teach so there is no reason that they shouldnt enjoy it. I wish that was evident in ATRs etc where my taxes are used to train persons.
    I remember some very highly regarded pte soldiers in my TA platoon that needed little encouragement to pass on skill learnt on courses. This is because the TA helps bring out the person inside, promoting people becuase they are qualified is good for them but not good always for the unit. because a vacancy exists it should be covered and the bloke rewarded but I'm a firm believer in being qualified to do the job having earnt that through a course or experience. I very often as a Pte soldier in a reg Bn acted as Ops Room duty officer, ARF LO, Lead a pLn sized QRF and often commanded patrols and OPs on ops. Now I didnt receive a penny extra apart from satisfaction. I knew that I had got as far as I could without a bigger heave that I wasnt ready to make so I left. The TA for me proved the right tonic and I enjoyed Brecon.
    It was the only course I did in 3 years where I got to learn as opposed to teaching. Mind you at Brecon a lot of the staff knew me so I got a few tasks that were unusual as I should know how to do certain things.
  15. Believe I have considered it but their is nowhere for me to go afterwards. Being 4 Yorks RSWO/RSO would be fun but I want to do the same job at the next higher formation.