Most technologically advanced mil b/a rifles

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by stoatman, Jul 17, 2009.

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  1. I'm not talking here about the best (from a military perspective), but the most technologically advanced from an engineering perspective.

    I would say that, during the First World War, the laurels go to the P 14/M 17. This rifle is properly production engineered (for the period) in a way that neither the SMLE or Gew98 were. It represents the peak of manufacturing and ergonomics that can be attained in starting from a G 98 basis, and is clearly well thought through (the dogleg in the bolt handle and the position of the safety catch, for instance). It certainly had the best sights on the battlefield, and is in my humble opinion a much better rifle from most perspectives than the M 1903 Springfields that it served alongside.

    For the Second World War though, the crown really has to go to the dastardly French for the MAS 36. Since this was basically a completely new rifle, they really could start from the ground up. From a production perspective, it really does have the minimum number of machining operations required to make the receiver, and the two-part stock helps production of that as well. From an ergonomic perspective it has everything that a rifle intended for a conscript army needs, and the only odd choice is why they cranked the bolt handle forward, since its positioning would have been ergonomically perfect had they just bent it straight down. Rear locking of course shortens the bolt throw and provides a good amount of receiver metal there for mounting a receiver sight. Perhaps the only other improvement would have been cooking on closing...

  2. I take it we're not including sniper rifles or other limited issue models then?
  3. Mr Deputy,

    I think I've seen that documentary... usual Discovery Channel shoite. Weaponology, was it? I don't know where they get their "experts" from, but often they are completely clueless twots...

    Why don't people who "say the round was slow" look up some data? The standard military load is a 139 grain projectile at 2700 ft./s. To put it in perspective, 303 Mk.VII is 174gn @ 2440 fps.

    It is a big hulking cartridge, and would have been full of powder back in the day.

    All full power rifle cartridges are overkill anyway, and shooting a clay block at about 5 m is hardly an accepted ballistic test... did you see what 30 carbine did to the same block? Trashed it. And 30 carbine is genuinely underkill.

    And breathe...
  4. aye, correct. must have at least been mass produced. But if you have any particularly interesting trials rifles in mind (from an engineering or ergonomics perspective), do tell about them
  5. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Looks good on telly though dun't it?
  6. cf 7.62 NATO 147gr @2750 hmmmm
  7. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    The sexiest weapon I've seen lately is the DSR-1. A GSG9 favourite.


    Bullpup sniper rifle, with guaranteed sub 1/2 MOA using factory ammo.

    A snip at £10k if you want one.
  8. It's a lot more ergonomic than it looks. A very tasty piece of kit indeed. Handles surprisingly well.

    I'm not a fan of that Zeiss scope though - reticle in the second focal plane, not exactly what you want with a rangefinding reticle in my view... :roll:

    I have a TRG22 which is very much a military B/A (sniper) rifle.
    Hammer forged, chrome lined, green phosphated stainless barrel, super -precision action, superb ice proof trigger, asymmetric muzzle brake, geometrically brilliant bipod.....
    Shoots 1/4 MoA with handloads. :)
  9. I forgot to mention in favour of the MAS that it has a bolt throw of significantly less than 90°.

    One would think that they had learned something from the Lee Enfield system, wouldn't one?

    Actually, I reckon that 3 small changes to the MAS 36 would have made it almost the equal of the No.4 on the battlefield:

    -- 10 round magazine
    -- don't crank the bolt handle forward
    -- make it cock on closing
  10. That's Remington 700, what's technologically advanced about that? :?
  11. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Oil Slick, I own one of those.
    It is many things, but "technologically advanced" is not one of them :D
  12. Plus, this thread is about the military bolt action rifle, and that is not what the Remington 700 is.

    It's not even well engineered or anything! And I've got one too, and I like it...
  13. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    The Marine Corps M40A1 version probably qualifies it
  14. It's certainly not well designed. There's one of Peter Sarony's custom jobs in my cupboard at the moment - not mine I hasten to add. Must have cost a small fortune (Circa £2500) and although it is accurate it's a sack of shit in the handling department, dreadful thing to shoot.