Most eloquent rant ever on loss of civil liberties

#1
Had a quick search, but doesn't look as if it's been picked up here. Phillip Pullman, in the Times today, has written a brilliant piece on the erosion of our civil liberties by the spineless scum that run our country, taster below:

The nation dreams it is a democratic state where the laws were made by freely elected representatives who were answerable to the people. It used to be such a nation once, it dreams, so it must be that nation still. It is a sweet dream.

You are not to be trusted with laws

So we shall put ourselves out of your reach

We shall put ourselves beyond your amendment or abolition

You do not need to argue about any changes we make, or to debate them, or to send your representatives to vote against them

You do not need to hold us to account

You think you will get what you want from an inquiry?

Who do you think you are?

What sort of fools do you think we are?
Full article here.
 
#2
What a chilling piece of prose. I agree (sadly) with mutch of what Pullman says.

We have blundered into a being a semi democratic state - this week I was back with my family in Poland and I realised just how pervasive New Liarbour have been in terms of changing my own mindset. Example - silly but relevant - Parking - I parked outside a chemist and saw a warden type person - I felt the usual angst about having to move the car etc. In fact there were no dramas - a reasonable explanation of what I was doing = no ticket. As I say a silly example but I think a metaphor for how we now live in the UK and how we are now forced to think about everything we do and movement we make, we now always seem to incur the wrath of some restriction/permissions. That is the sort of tyranny they got rid of in Poland in 1990.

Who would have thought that I would experience more simple freedom in Poland than in the UK - I never would have thought that in my lifetime.

We have allowed the Govt to control and systemise our lives too much. The systems can be dismantled that part is easy - but what do we do about the generation of "busy bodies" (informants) New Liarbour have created that exist right through the public sector - they will want to hang onto their jobs/power. These Civil servants even believe that they are doing the right thing.

This will be the real challenge for the Tories. If they really want to take it on.
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
Its exactly what the Labour government did after the war. Churchill's campaign was based around getting rid of the myriad 'snoopers' on the public purse.

I refuse to believe that the Tories are unaware of this. :evil:


What chance a Churchill nowadays?
 
#4
Flight said:
Its exactly what the Labour government did after the war. Churchill's campaign was based around getting rid of the myriad 'snoopers' on the public purse.

I refuse to believe that the Tories are unaware of this. :evil:


What chance a Churchill nowadays?
What chance indeed?

I notice that Jabba the Prescott has been banging on this lunch time about the banks and has said that the Govt should just take the Pension away from that RBS dude.

Now much as I think that the RBS pension is excessive what winds me up more is Prescott's mindset - he thinks the Govt can just take someone's pension away without any thought for the precedent that this might set. Nothing is ever that simple, unless you want to be totalitarian.

Actually New Liarbour did take everyone's pension away with that quite little tax that Broon introduced a while back. Never mind we have to have an election in just over a year.

Roll on the "quite summer"
 
#5
I was just about to post this link - what a statement of the truth, and what an answer to those who argue "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear".

Our ancestors fought too hard for too long for us to allow the destruction the laws which protect us from tyrants, which is why Voltaire was able to say in 1731:

"The English are the only people upon earth who have been able to prescribe limits to the power of kings by resisting them; and who, by a series of struggles, have at last established that wise Government where the Prince is all-powerful to do good, and, at the same time, is restrained from committing evil; where the nobles are great without insolence, though there are no vassals; and where the people share in the government without confusion."

Substitute the royal and noble references with suitable words for the executive/party system, andI wonder if the same could honestly be said today.
 
#6
FARMBOY said:
Flight said:
Its exactly what the Labour government did after the war. Churchill's campaign was based around getting rid of the myriad 'snoopers' on the public purse.

I refuse to believe that the Tories are unaware of this. :evil:


What chance a Churchill nowadays?
What chance indeed?

I notice that Jabba the Prescott has been banging on this lunch time about the banks and has said that the Govt should just take the Pension away from that RBS dude.

Now much as I think that the RBS pension is excessive what winds me up more is Prescott's mindset - he thinks the Govt can just take someone's pension away without any thought for the precedent that this might set. Nothing is ever that simple, unless you want to be totalitarian.

Actually New Liarbour did take everyone's pension away with that quite little tax that Broon introduced a while back. Never mind we have to have an election in just over a year.

Roll on the "quite summer"
I'd like to take that fat cnuts right to life away! BTW I despise the RBS fecker as well but as I continually ask ashie and Sven - I accept the legality of his pension but

Is it MORAL or IMMORAL.

For me - totally immoral :evil:

Edited once for lunchtime spelling :oops:
 
B

benjaminw1

Guest
#7
rickshaw-major said:
FARMBOY said:
Flight said:
Its exactly what the Labour government did after the war. Churchill's campaign was based around getting rid of the myriad 'snoopers' on the public purse.

I refuse to believe that the Tories are unaware of this. :evil:


What chance a Churchill nowadays?
What chance indeed?

I notice that Jabba the Prescott has been banging on this lunch time about the banks and has said that the Govt should just take the Pension away from that RBS dude.

Now much as I think that the RBS pension is excessive what winds me up more is Prescott's mindset - he thinks the Govt can just take someone's pension away without any thought for the precedent that this might set. Nothing is ever that simple, unless you want to be totalitarian.

Actually New Liarbour did take everyone's pension away with that quite little tax that Broon introduced a while back. Never mind we have to have an election in just over a year.

Roll on the "quite summer"
I'd like to take that fat cnuts right to life away! BTW I despise the RBS fecker as well but as I continually ask ashie and Sven - I accept the legality of his pension but

Is it MORAL or IMMORAL.

For me - totally immoral :evil:

Edited once for lunchtime spelling :oops:
Since when has a capitalist got be moral?

The cnuts are those morons pretending to run the country, who let him get the pension.

All this blame deflecting by incontinent scotch loons don't cut it with me...

Robert Peston for Chancellor say I!
 
#8
FARMBOY said:
I notice that Jabba the Prescott has been banging on this lunch time about the banks and has said that the Govt should just take the Pension away from that RBS dude.

Now much as I think that the RBS pension is excessive what winds me up more is Prescott's mindset - he thinks the Govt can just take someone's pension away without any thought for the precedent that this might set. Nothing is ever that simple, unless you want to be totalitarian.

Actually New Liarbour did take everyone's pension away with that quite little tax that Broon introduced a while back. Never mind we have to have an election in just over a year.
If there are to be 'No rewards for failure' and those guilty of failure are to have their pensions taken away then Blair and Brown should be first in the queue to give up their Prime Ministerial pensions. After all they have systematically wrecked the UK over the last 12 years.

If they had an ounce of decency they would retire to their studies with loaded revolvers and do the decent thing.
 
#9
There is very little difference between the arrogance and lack of governance of Fred the Shred or indeed that of Prezza the hut. To be honest I find the sleaze of ZANU Liarbour worse, because nobody expected Fred to be anything other than a rapacious commercial shark. Remember all that Tony Blair as Kennedy and New Labour as his Camelot??

Personally I sensed it was ballocks when I tried to visualise Lancelot Mandelson skipping off with Queen Guinevere Booth QC.
 
#10
It's not just the throbbers who run the country are to blame. We are too.

The Romans used 'bread and circuses' to keep the plebs in order and the modern political elite can do much the same today; the circus in this case being the jibbering torrent of celebrity driven shiite that is all that most of us Brits care about any more.

They can do what they like in Westminster, just so long as we can keep reading about 'tragic' Jade or the size of Jordan's knockers.
 
#11
benjaminw1 said:
Robert Peston for Chancellor say I!
Have you been drinking? The last thing this country needs right now is that fool. A Government mouthpiece for Al JaBeeba, no more, no less.

Ask yourself one question. As he always seems to know what is going to happen next in terms of Government policy, where does he get his information from?
 
#12
Manninagh said:
I was just about to post this link - what a statement of the truth, and what an answer to those who argue "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear".

Our ancestors fought too hard for too long for us to allow the destruction the laws which protect us from tyrants, which is why Voltaire was able to say in 1731:

"The English are the only people upon earth who have been able to prescribe limits to the power of kings by resisting them; and who, by a series of struggles, have at last established that wise Government where the Prince is all-powerful to do good, and, at the same time, is restrained from committing evil; where the nobles are great without insolence, though there are no vassals; and where the people share in the government without confusion."

Substitute the royal and noble references with suitable words for the executive/party system, and I wonder if the same could honestly be said today.
What a come-down for a once proud folk, eh?

What I found really chilling in that most telling article was this:
It is inconceivable to me that a waking nation in the full consciousness of its freedom would have allowed its government to pass such laws as the Protection from Harassment Act (1997), the Crime and Disorder Act (1998), the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (2000), the Terrorism Act (2000), the Criminal Justice and Police Act (2001), the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act (2001), the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Extension Act (2002), the Criminal Justice Act (2003), the Extradition Act (2003), the Anti-Social Behaviour Act (2003), the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act (2004), the Civil Contingencies Act (2004), the Prevention of Terrorism Act (2005), the Inquiries Act (2005), the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act (2005), not to mention a host of pending legislation such as the Identity Cards Bill, the Coroners and Justice Bill, and the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill.
All introduced by Phony Tony and his repellant and corrupt covy of crooks.

However, I fear there's no going back, since the "Little Hitlers" subsequently endowed with powers they'd only daydreamed about will be manifestly reluctant to go back to actually serving the populace who voted for them and will fight tooth and claw to retain their rancid "authority".

MsG
 
#13
FARMBOY said:
What a chilling piece of prose. I agree (sadly) with mutch of what Pullman says.

We have blundered into a being a semi democratic state - this week I was back with my family in Poland and I realised just how pervasive New Liarbour have been in terms of changing my own mindset. Example - silly but relevant - Parking - I parked outside a chemist and saw a warden type person - I felt the usual angst about having to move the car etc. In fact there were no dramas - a reasonable explanation of what I was doing = no ticket. As I say a silly example but I think a metaphor for how we now live in the UK and how we are now forced to think about everything we do and movement we make, we now always seem to incur the wrath of some restriction/permissions. That is the sort of tyranny they got rid of in Poland in 1990.

Who would have thought that I would experience more simple freedom in Poland than in the UK - I never would have thought that in my lifetime.

We have allowed the Govt to control and systemise our lives too much. The systems can be dismantled that part is easy - but what do we do about the generation of "busy bodies" (informants) New Liarbour have created that exist right through the public sector - they will want to hang onto their jobs/power. These Civil servants even believe that they are doing the right thing.

This will be the real challenge for the Tories. If they really want to take it on.
I receive a similar sensation in provincial China and that depresses me. For all the talk of human rights, it seems that we're not really free to go about our lawful occasions without fear of authority in the UK anymore.

That seems like a fairly good workaday definition of 'totalitarianism' to me.
 
#14
On the interview I heard Prezza was challenged about just taking away the Bankers pension. It was sugested that any such act would be against the law - his response was do it anyway and let him sue the government.

This just shows the contempt for democracy and the rule of law - he believes his party is above the law, clearly believing that the judiciary would support their actions regardless of the legality. Presumably even if they lost it wouldn't matter the tax-payer would pick up the legal bill.

Prezza's pension in the meantime is worth over a million in itself. If anyone deserves to lose it, he does for being a national disgrace and laughing stock.
 
#15
While a sixteen million pension pot is over the top, its being spun to take attention away from the white elephant in the room. I'm far more concerned and outraged at the amount of tax payers money getting wasted by the government, compared to that its a miniscule amount.
 
#16
At least Fred has a long career in banking to justify his pension. (OK we could argue about the size, and that is fairly obscene.) MPs get a non-contributory, generous pension even if they only serve one term in a job which is by nature fixed length.

As Ord_Sgt says, the newspaper furore over this is just spin to cover lots of stuff the government would like buried. For example, why they only bought 'B' shares with taxpayers' money, why they didn't nationalise the banks properly, or sooner? Why Local Authority bosses are getting bigger and bigger salaries and 'options', and of course the erosion of civil liberties, as outlined above and here:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/p=2459851.html#2459851

Be afraid. Be very afraid.
 
#17
smartascarrots said:
FARMBOY said:
What a chilling piece of prose. I agree (sadly) with mutch of what Pullman says.

We have blundered into a being a semi democratic state - this week I was back with my family in Poland and I realised just how pervasive New Liarbour have been in terms of changing my own mindset. Example - silly but relevant - Parking - I parked outside a chemist and saw a warden type person - I felt the usual angst about having to move the car etc. In fact there were no dramas - a reasonable explanation of what I was doing = no ticket. As I say a silly example but I think a metaphor for how we now live in the UK and how we are now forced to think about everything we do and movement we make, we now always seem to incur the wrath of some restriction/permissions. That is the sort of tyranny they got rid of in Poland in 1990.

Who would have thought that I would experience more simple freedom in Poland than in the UK - I never would have thought that in my lifetime.

We have allowed the Govt to control and systemise our lives too much. The systems can be dismantled that part is easy - but what do we do about the generation of "busy bodies" (informants) New Liarbour have created that exist right through the public sector - they will want to hang onto their jobs/power. These Civil servants even believe that they are doing the right thing.

This will be the real challenge for the Tories. If they really want to take it on.
I receive a similar sensation in provincial China and that depresses me. For all the talk of human rights, it seems that we're not really free to go about our lawful occasions without fear of authority in the UK anymore.

That seems like a fairly good workaday definition of 'totalitarianism' to me.
Absolutely 'Carrots. The thing about living under communism was (certainly in Poland) about engendering a state of mind...can i do this...i can't do this....that man will challenge me if I park here, get involved or question the authority of etc. That is happening in the UK and it happens in increments both personally and publically. I believe we are at a cross roads regarding "Freedom" in the UK. In many ways we are worse off than Poalnd was in 1990 because it was very clear how and why the totalitarian structure was in place and without Soviet backing much of the regime could be identified and pulled quite quickly. In the UK - where do we start?

The Tories should not just be looking to win the next election they should be looking to dismantle the infrastructure that is beating ordinary decent people down, a very long, hard and expensive road.
 
#18
I think I read somewhere today that the Lib/Dem boss has pledged to repeal certain parts of ZANU NuLiarbour legislation resulting in the loss of civil liberties. Trouble is, he is not to form a government.

Come on Tories, get your pledge in too! Mean it though, mean it!

Huge trouble is, with brains at the top of the Labour pile like Prescott's, and at the bottom of the Labour pile concerned only with hand-outs, lager and fags, getting rid of the frightful mob.

Stand-by for an announcement 'postponing' the next general election 'in the best interests of the nation'. I truly believe it might happen.
 
#19
smartascarrots said:
FARMBOY said:
What a chilling piece of prose. I agree (sadly) with mutch of what Pullman says.

We have blundered into a being a semi democratic state - this week I was back with my family in Poland and I realised just how pervasive New Liarbour have been in terms of changing my own mindset. Example - silly but relevant - Parking - I parked outside a chemist and saw a warden type person - I felt the usual angst about having to move the car etc. In fact there were no dramas - a reasonable explanation of what I was doing = no ticket. As I say a silly example but I think a metaphor for how we now live in the UK and how we are now forced to think about everything we do and movement we make, we now always seem to incur the wrath of some restriction/permissions. That is the sort of tyranny they got rid of in Poland in 1990.

Who would have thought that I would experience more simple freedom in Poland than in the UK - I never would have thought that in my lifetime.

We have allowed the Govt to control and systemise our lives too much. The systems can be dismantled that part is easy - but what do we do about the generation of "busy bodies" (informants) New Liarbour have created that exist right through the public sector - they will want to hang onto their jobs/power. These Civil servants even believe that they are doing the right thing.

This will be the real challenge for the Tories. If they really want to take it on.
I receive a similar sensation in provincial China and that depresses me. For all the talk of human rights, it seems that we're not really free to go about our lawful occasions without fear of authority in the UK anymore.
Everyday business like?
 

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