Mosquito restoration flight

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Probably been posted before - but seen on a FB site related to my old home town of Hatfield, home of the De Havilland Aircraft Company.

https://fb.watch/5iga1TZpLK/
 

4(T)

LE
They made a nice job of that.

Hope there are some more people with pockets deep enough to sponsor additional rebuilds/repros whilst the production resources are there.
 

Tesseract

On ROPS
On ROPs
If only Bomber Command had been able to field this aircraft in the same kind of numbers instead of the Lancaster.

Many aircrew lives could've been saved?
 

Daz

LE
If only Bomber Command had been able to field this aircraft in the same kind of numbers instead of the Lancaster.

Many aircrew lives could've been saved?
Apart from the small matter that it's a different class of aircraft used for a completely different role
 

Daz

LE
Note the numbers and the tonnage carried, not to mention that the 4000llbs could be taken up by one bomb on the Mosquito, compare that with the Lancaster which could mix and match loads up to 22000lbs

SpeedPayloadRangeCrewNo. Built
Mosquito ((raf.mod.uk)) 415mph4000lbs1485 miles27781
Lancaster ((raf.mod.uk))282mph22000lbs2530 miles77377

As a comparison,
So if we take theoretical “thousand bomber raid” of Lancaster bombers, they could deliver a staggering 9,821 tons of explosives. It would take five thousand, five hundred Mosquito’s to deliver that amount.

One thousand Lancaster’s would have a crew of 7,000 men, five thousand, five hundred Mosquitos would need 11,000 men!
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
There are 3 or 4 worldwide apparently but none in UK AFAIK. Must have imagined it the other day.
 

Tesseract

On ROPS
On ROPs
Thank you @Daz I consider myself corrected somewhat

Although I believe the loss rate was much lower for the mossie, but perhaps an order of magnitude
 
Note the numbers and the tonnage carried, not to mention that the 4000llbs could be taken up by one bomb on the Mosquito, compare that with the Lancaster which could mix and match loads up to 22000lbs

SpeedPayloadRangeCrewNo. Built
Mosquito ((raf.mod.uk))415mph4000lbs1485 miles27781
Lancaster ((raf.mod.uk))282mph22000lbs2530 miles77377

As a comparison,
That is not a realistic comparison.
A Typical Lanc bombload would be about 12000 lb.
To lift the 22000lb Grand Slam required considerable modification including the removal of two turrets. As GS ops had to be carried out in daylight they were only feasible once the Luftwaffe had been destroyed, and the RAF had fighters capable of escorting the bomber all the way to the target.
 

Daz

LE
Thank you @Daz I consider myself corrected somewhat

Although I believe the loss rate was much lower for the mossie, but perhaps an order of magnitude
In theory, items like this get mentioned a lot during such discussions
From November 1943 to March 1944 Berlin was repeatedly bombed, the loss rate of the heavy bombers (predominantly Lancaster’s) was 5.1%, for the Mosquito it was 0.5%.

On the face of it, you would assume that the Mosquito would be the better bet, but that view fails to take into account the mission roles and flight profiles, not to mention the tonnage carried.

At the end of the day, the Mosquito is a fighter bomber and the Lancaster was a heavy bomber, comparing them is like comparing apples and pears
 
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Daz

LE
That is not a realistic comparison.
A Typical Lanc bombload would be about 12000 lb.
To lift the 22000lb Grand Slam required considerable modification including the removal of two turrets. As GS ops had to be carried out in daylight they were only feasible once the Luftwaffe had been destroyed, and the RAF had fighters capable of escorting the bomber all the way to the target.
The point being is that the Lancaster is a heavy bomber that can carry more tonnage and a greater mix as its bomb load than a Mosquito which is a light bomber - the mix would of course vary due to mission & target role
 

Daz

LE
If anyone is interested, here's a webpage with some of the Lanc's bomb loading examples
 

QRK2

LE
If only Bomber Command had been able to field this aircraft in the same kind of numbers instead of the Lancaster.

Many aircrew lives could've been saved?

ISTR a wartime OA report that suggested that, to reduce aircrew casualty numbers, the Air Gunners should be withdrawn from the Heavy Bomber force as they made a marginal difference to the aircraft's survivability in night operations. Obviously not implemented (except on some of the 'Specials' for weight saving reasons) not least due to the perceived morale impact.
 
ISTR a wartime OA report that suggested that, to reduce aircrew casualty numbers, the Air Gunners should be withdrawn from the Heavy Bomber force as they made a marginal difference to the aircraft's survivability in night operations. Obviously not implemented (except on some of the 'Specials' for weight saving reasons) not least due to the perceived morale impact.
From late '44 Eighth AF heavies routinely stopped carrying one of the waist gunners. Both guns were left in situ, and the single waist gunner hopped from side to side as required.
 

Tesseract

On ROPS
On ROPs
From late '44 Eighth AF heavies routinely stopped carrying one of the waist gunners. Both guns were left in situ, and the single waist gunner hopped from side to side as required.
Indeed, after the operation that bears your handle, the bombers scarce required defence from fighters
 
The Mosquito cost one-third as much a Lancaster to build, had half as many engines and one-tenth of the loss rate. However it could only carry one third of the bombload in realistic conditions, but consistently delivered it with better accuracy.

Given that , the only real variables that could tip in favour of the Lancaster would be (1) target range and (2) feasibility of training three times as many flight crews for an equivalent force of Mosquitoes.

Interestingly the trend in recent decades has been responsive strikes with smaller payloads carried by fast air.
 
ISTR a wartime OA report that suggested that, to reduce aircrew casualty numbers, the Air Gunners should be withdrawn from the Heavy Bomber force as they made a marginal difference to the aircraft's survivability in night operations. Obviously not implemented (except on some of the 'Specials' for weight saving reasons) not least due to the perceived morale impact.


IIRC, it suggested deleting the front and mid upper upper turret as most attacks were stern chases.
The gain in performance from deleting the weight of two turrets, ammunition and crew was estimated @ 20kts which would have eliminated the slight performance advantage of most German night fighters and added a few thousand feet in operational ceiling.
As you note, not proceeded with mostly for 'moral' reasons, Bomber Command thought the impression of gunners 'defending' the bomber was better for morale.
 

Mufulira42

Old-Salt
The Mosquito cost one-third as much a Lancaster to build, had half as many engines and one-tenth of the loss rate. However it could only carry one third of the bombload in realistic conditions, but consistently delivered it with better accuracy.

Given that , the only real variables that could tip in favour of the Lancaster would be (1) target range and (2) feasibility of training three times as many flight crews for an equivalent force of Mosquitoes.

Interestingly the trend in recent decades has been responsive strikes with smaller payloads carried by fast air.
IIRC a local lad ac former Mosquito driver was able to do 2 deliveries to Berlin in one night -- he'd returned from target marking and upon landing safe and sound the CO thought it would be ever so lovely if he went back with another load of something for the box heads which he promptly did.\
We were sitting in local Legion bar when the visiting Box head delegation to mine-site asked" Have you ever been to Berlin Mr A.?..

To which he replied as he nuzzled his pint mug " I used to see Berlin and other parts a couple of times a week in the 40's"

Apparently irony is lost on some groups especially in Legion suds room!
 
Note the numbers and the tonnage carried, not to mention that the 4000llbs could be taken up by one bomb on the Mosquito, compare that with the Lancaster which could mix and match loads up to 22000lbs

SpeedPayloadRangeCrewNo. Built
Mosquito ((raf.mod.uk))415mph4000lbs1485 miles27781
Lancaster ((raf.mod.uk))282mph22000lbs2530 miles77377

As a comparison,
And consider that the B17 could carry 4,500lb of bombs to Europe from the UK, at half the speed.
 

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