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Moron Putin threatens to review relations with EU

#1
With his usual idiotism the PM issues empty threats.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090323/120699757.html

Russia will start reviewing its relations with the European Union should Moscow's interests be ignored, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Monday.

Russian Energy Minister Sergei Shmatko said earlier in the day that Russia had been effectively excluded from talks at an international investment conference in Brussels on the modernization of the Ukrainian gas pipeline network, adding that the conference, convened by the European Commission, was limited to discussions between Ukraine and the EU.
In fact Russia has nothing to propose. However EU decision maked are not right. Why Russia was invited to the conference if there were no plans to involve it in modernisation of Ukrainian gas-pipe system. The reactions of Putin was nervous and what can he do? Really - nothing.

The Russian premier also told journalists that a declaration on the gas market adopted in Brussels by Ukraine and the EU was poorly thought-out and unprofessional.
No, it is well elaborated decision. Mr. Putin was had to predict such a development but now he is unable to do anything.
 
#3
KGB_resident said:
With his usual idiotism the PM issues empty threats.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090323/120699757.html

Russia will start reviewing its relations with the European Union should Moscow's interests be ignored, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Monday.

Russian Energy Minister Sergei Shmatko said earlier in the day that Russia had been effectively excluded from talks at an international investment conference in Brussels on the modernization of the Ukrainian gas pipeline network, adding that the conference, convened by the European Commission, was limited to discussions between Ukraine and the EU.
In fact Russia has nothing to propose. However EU decision maked are not right. Why Russia was invited to the conference if there were no plans to involve it in modernisation of Ukrainian gas-pipe system. The reactions of Putin was nervous and what can he do? Really - nothing.
Seems to be a gentle reminder to the Kremlin by the EU as to who they think was to blame for the silly episode in January.

Maybe the non-idiots (who you now seem happy to accept as genuine idiots) have realised just how foolish they played things then.
 
#4
Jaw, jaw is better than war, war, as Churchill said. In general, when a suspicious party is invited to a meeting, the aim is to allow him to listen to everything that is said, and see the faces, both at the meeting and in the corridor/canteen/gents toilet. Even if he does not speak at the meeting, he has the chance to voice his ideas at the other venues. If he choses to say something in public that gives offence, well you just have to take the rough with the smooth. Least said, soonest mended.
 
#5
whitecity said:
Seems to be a gentle reminder to the Kremlin by the EU as to who they think was to blame for the silly episode in January.
European leaders can blame only themselves that the EU hadn't established control (of course indirect one) over Ukrainian gas-pipe system.

whitecity said:
Maybe the non-idiots (who you now seem happy to accept as genuine idiots) have realised just how foolish they played things then.
The gas crisis that took place in January resolved the most difficult problem - gas prices for Ukraine. From 2010 and further the price will be defined using European fomula. It is very good result for Russia and for the EU because namely now the EU has excellent opportunity to modernise Ukrainian gas-pipe system. Though as a result the new underwater pine-lines will be questioned. Would be they ever needed.

So mr.Putin is angry but unable to do anything.
 
#7
whitecity said:
KGB_resident said:
With his usual idiotism the PM issues empty threats.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090323/120699757.html

Russia will start reviewing its relations with the European Union should Moscow's interests be ignored, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Monday.

Russian Energy Minister Sergei Shmatko said earlier in the day that Russia had been effectively excluded from talks at an international investment conference in Brussels on the modernization of the Ukrainian gas pipeline network, adding that the conference, convened by the European Commission, was limited to discussions between Ukraine and the EU.
In fact Russia has nothing to propose. However EU decision maked are not right. Why Russia was invited to the conference if there were no plans to involve it in modernisation of Ukrainian gas-pipe system. The reactions of Putin was nervous and what can he do? Really - nothing.
Seems to be a gentle reminder to the Kremlin by the EU as to who they think was to blame for the silly episode in January.

Maybe the non-idiots (who you now seem happy to accept as genuine idiots) have realised just how foolish they played things then.
Or maybe EU, Ukraine and Russia know that Ukrainian gas-pipe system belongs to US? :) Why would EU talk to Russia about something Russia can get its hands on only if Timoshenko will become the next president?

On the other hand, Russia has something up its sleeve it can level at EU: few weeks ago EU invited Russia to take part in NABUCCO (since Russia bought Central Asian gas, the only other options for EU would be to bow before Iran, get bogged down in Afghanistan (possibly both), or forget NABUCCO all together); Russia said thanks, we wish your project good luck, but we are busy with our own. Very diplomatic and shrewd.

PS
I'm sorry, Sergey, that by protecting Russia's automotive industry Putin caused you some inconvenience, but that doesn't mean he is an idiot, he has a country to run...
 
#8
KGB_resident said:
European leaders can blame only themselves that the EU hadn't established control (of course indirect one) over Ukrainian gas-pipe system.
Ej????

First Domovoy claiming the US wants control of Ukraine's gas pipes, and now you saying the EU wants control. Bizarre!

KGB_resident said:
The gas crisis that took place in January resolved the most difficult problem - gas prices for Ukraine. From 2010 and further the price will be defined using European fomula. It is very good result for Russia
We've been round this bouy before KGB_resident, but it seems you failed to grasp the reality.

In October 2008, Putin and Tymoshenko agreed market price would be in effect within 3 years - so, probably from Jan 2011 onwards. After the silly mess this January, market price will be initiated from Jan 2010 onwards. One year earlier. Woopy do!!! What a great success for Moscow!

Now take into account that the market price for gas will very shortly be BELOW the special price offered to Ukraine in 2008, and Russia has to sell in 2009 at market less 20% (that's the very low price with a 20% discount) AND they sold 11 bcm at rock bottom price, that great success is looking rather PANTS.

KGB_resident said:
and for the EU because namely now the EU has excellent opportunity to modernise Ukrainian gas-pipe system. Though as a result the new underwater pine-lines will be questioned. Would be they ever needed.
Exactly. Moscow wants to threaten Ukraine with Nord Stream. The EU has just said, "sod off! If you want to sell us gas, send it via Ukraine."

I predict new details on Nabucco project to hit the headlines in the coming days/weeks.
 
#9
Domovoy said:
Or maybe EU, Ukraine and Russia know that Ukrainian gas-pipe system belongs to US? :)
Cuckoo, cuckoo!

Domovoy said:
Why would EU talk to Russia about something Russia can get its hands on only if Timoshenko will become the next president?
I never thought this would crop up when I was typing up my previous post. Thank you Domovoy for stepping in and highlighting my point.

Domovoy said:
On the other hand, Russia has something up its sleeve it can level at EU: few weeks ago EU invited Russia to take part in NABUCCO (since Russia bought Central Asian gas, the only other options for EU would be to bow before Iran, get bogged down in Afghanistan (possibly both), or forget NABUCCO all together); Russia said thanks, we wish your project good luck, but we are busy with our own. Very diplomatic and shrewd.
Cuckoo, cuckoo!
 
#10
whitecity said:
With petulance like this, it's pretty impossible to regard Russia as a 'reliable' energy partner and completely descredits the notion that gas sales are purely economic in nature.
Whitecity, even Ukrainian government/president do not dispute the guilt of Ukraine (even if they pass the blame around), and you are still going on about it! It's hilarious... :D
 
#11
Domovoy said:
whitecity said:
With petulance like this, it's pretty impossible to regard Russia as a 'reliable' energy partner and completely descredits the notion that gas sales are purely economic in nature.
Whitecity, even Ukrainian government/president do not dispute the guilt of Ukraine (even if they pass the blame around), and you are still going on about it! It's hilarious... :D
So you say. Cuckoo!
 
#12
whitecity said:
Domovoy said:
Or maybe EU, Ukraine and Russia know that Ukrainian gas-pipe system belongs to US? :)
Cuckoo, cuckoo!
I already gave you a link to this “news” in a thread concerning the recent gas crisis. If you chose not to read it…

whitecity said:
Domovoy said:
Why would EU talk to Russia about something Russia can get its hands on only if Timoshenko will become the next president?
I never thought this would crop up when I was typing up my previous post. Thank you Domovoy for stepping in and highlighting my point.
Which was?.. That Kremlin is looking to support Timoshenko? Was that a secret?

whitecity said:
Domovoy said:
On the other hand, Russia has something up its sleeve it can level at EU: few weeks ago EU invited Russia to take part in NABUCCO (since Russia bought Central Asian gas, the only other options for EU would be to bow before Iran, get bogged down in Afghanistan (possibly both), or forget NABUCCO all together); Russia said thanks, we wish your project good luck, but we are busy with our own. Very diplomatic and shrewd.
Cuckoo, cuckoo!
“Gazprom has received an invitation to join the Nabucco pipeline project to pump gas from Central Asia to Europe, but will not take up the offer, a deputy head of Russia's energy giant said.
"Unlike in the case of Nabucco, we have everything we need for this project [South Stream] to materialize," he said. "We have gas, the market, experience in implementing complex projects, and corporate management."
http://www.topix.com/world/russia/2009/03/gazprom-turns-down-invitation-to-join-nabucco-project

AHH!!! Or dear!!! :omfg: “The ambitious Nabucco pipeline project intended to pump Central Asian natural gas to Europe bypassing Russia has been excluded from EU’s priority projects, a source in the EU’s Council of Ministers said on Tuesday.”
http://invest.russiatoday.com/Top_N...s_pipeline_is_not_on_EU_s_agenda_anymore.html

How cuckoo is that?!
:party:
 
#13
Domovoy said:
AHH!!! Or dear!!! :omfg: “The ambitious Nabucco pipeline project intended to pump Central Asian natural gas to Europe bypassing Russia has been excluded from EU’s priority projects, a source in the EU’s Council of Ministers said on Tuesday.”
http://invest.russiatoday.com/Top_N...s_pipeline_is_not_on_EU_s_agenda_anymore.html

How cuckoo is that?!
100%.

(YOUR underlining). Once again, you and your Russian propaganda are out of date. :)

17 March:
Nabucco removed from EU energy project list

18 March:
Poland defies Germany over Nabucco pipe

20 March:
EU leaders clinch deal on five billion stimulus plan

"It's all agreed," Polish EU Affairs minister Mikolaj Dowgielewicz told journalists before the end of the summit. As his prime minister, Donald Tusk, had said on Wednesday (18 March), Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries pushed for the Nabucco gas pipeline project during the two-day EU summit.

Germany has finally agreed to include the Nabucco gas pipeline in the list of projects, earmarking as much as 200 million euro for a risk-sharing facility, intended to help secure loans from banks at better conditions than those offered on the market. German Chancellor Angela Merkel had initially refused to back public funding for the pipeline, which aims to reduce the EU's dependency on Russian gas
This is what was approved: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/en/ec/106847.pdf

The story about Gazprom refusing to join Nabucco seems to be a rather opportunist piece of Russian disinformation.

Once again Domovoy. You have only read what you wantd to read and ignored the rest.

Cuckoo!
 
#14
whitecity said:
Domovoy said:
AHH!!! Or dear!!! :omfg: “The ambitious Nabucco pipeline project intended to pump Central Asian natural gas to Europe bypassing Russia has been excluded from EU’s priority projects, a source in the EU’s Council of Ministers said on Tuesday.”
http://invest.russiatoday.com/Top_N...s_pipeline_is_not_on_EU_s_agenda_anymore.html

How cuckoo is that?!
100%.

(YOUR underlining). Once again, you and your Russian propaganda are out of date. :)

17 March:
Nabucco removed from EU energy project list

18 March:
Poland defies Germany over Nabucco pipe

20 March:
EU leaders clinch deal on five billion stimulus plan

"It's all agreed," Polish EU Affairs minister Mikolaj Dowgielewicz told journalists before the end of the summit. As his prime minister, Donald Tusk, had said on Wednesday (18 March), Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries pushed for the Nabucco gas pipeline project during the two-day EU summit.

Germany has finally agreed to include the Nabucco gas pipeline in the list of projects, earmarking as much as 200 million euro for a risk-sharing facility, intended to help secure loans from banks at better conditions than those offered on the market. German Chancellor Angela Merkel had initially refused to back public funding for the pipeline, which aims to reduce the EU's dependency on Russian gas
This is what was approved: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/en/ec/106847.pdf

The story about Gazprom refusing to join Nabucco seems to be a rather opportunist piece of Russian disinformation.

Once again, whitecity, you hide behind sound bites: “propaganda”, “opportunist”, “disinformation”…

What do you call “propaganda” exactly?

The fact that Gazprom was invited to take part in NABUCCO was reported by few papers around EU, as well as the fact that Russia refused an offer.

Since you stated “The story about Gazprom refusing to join Nabucco seems to be a rather opportunist piece of Russian disinformation”, -- you have information to the contrary, please don’t hesitate to post a link.


Again, how come “my Russian propaganda” can be out of date, if it reported of an event at the time it happened?

What, Poland “took the lead in trying to make Germany change its mind.”? Who would’ve thought of that?! Trojan donkey is committing old EU to money wasting “white elephant”? That on top of old EU keeping Polish (and other new EU members) afloat?

Did Poland indicate who and how will fill NABUCCO?

Well, whitecity, as I said before: NABUCCO was designed for Central Asian gas, since Russia bought it, EU has to get Russia on site; the only other options for EU would be to bow before Iran, get bogged down in Afghanistan (possibly both), or forget NABUCCO all together.

Bulgaria. March 22, 2009 "Merkel apparently gave in to pressure, requesting in exchange that sums be spent quickly to help Europe's economic recovery in the short term. Indeed, the adopted document envisages spending two billion euro on energy projects in 2009, and another 1.975 B in 2010. A total of 3.975 is to be spent on energy projects.

This may however mean that the funding for Nabucco and other projects, favoured by Eastern European countries, could be lost."
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=102133
 
#15
Domovoy said:
Once again, whitecity, you hide behind sound bites: “propaganda”, “opportunist”, “disinformation”…
And you "hide behind" inaccurate information, out of date information, and your agenda driven prism of what the future may look like.
 
#16
whitecity said:
Domovoy said:
Once again, whitecity, you hide behind sound bites: “propaganda”, “opportunist”, “disinformation”…
And you "hide behind" inaccurate information, out of date information, and your agenda driven prism of what the future may look like.
More loud sound bites from whitecity.

So far you did not contribute any information contradicting "NABUCCO was designed for Central Asian gas, since Russia bought it, EU has to get Russia on site; the only other options for EU would be to bow before Iran, get bogged down in Afghanistan (possibly both), or forget NABUCCO all together."

I'm not even mentioning the fact that you didn't know Gazprom rejected invitation to join NABUCCO.

Your little attempt to save your face with the news of Poland twisting Germany's hand looks even shakier after Sofia's suggestion from 22 of March (updated from yours): "This may however mean that the funding for Nabucco and other projects, favoured by Eastern European countries, could be lost."
 
#18
Domovoy said:
I'm sorry, Sergey, that by protecting Russia's automotive industry Putin caused you some inconvenience, but that doesn't mean he is an idiot, he has a country to run...
Domovoy there is no problem with cars in our family. Few days ago I bought a new car for my wife. It is Suzuki Swift (so now she has 2 cars). I paid something like 11000 Euro. By the way, in Germany prices for Swift begin with 13300 Euro. My car is also Suzuki SX-4. I bought it October 2008 and like it very much. My son drives my previous car (you could laugh) also Suzuki - Liana (baught in 2006). It is comfortable, reliable car.

I very much appreciate mr.Putin for resolution of the conflict in Chechnya, for creation of situation of stability in Russia, for his independent position in international relations. There are many positive point and summing it up my common estimate of his rule is rather positive.

But I don't approve his steps in economics. Why the Central bank issued cheap short term credits in roubles during recent devaluation? It is a stupid policy. I see it as a robbery of Russian national reserves organised by Putin's gang of thieves. Mr. Putin made misleading declarations about rouble and dollar. He with his puppet dwarf so called 'president' Medvedev urged Russians to keep money in roubles. Thank Gods I didn't follow exactly their instructions. But millions of ordinary Russians were in fact robbered.

As for Putin's recent remarks then they look as an empty threat. That is laughable.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Isn't it WONDERFUL news that the UK LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) port has now opened? This means we can get enormous volumes of cooled liquid gas (1:400 of the gaseous volume btw) delivered from anywhere in the world (excluding Russia entirely - phew!) by cooled container ship. If I'm not mistaken, there's one open or opening on the EU mainland too.

Looks like holding Europe to ransom, using energy as a fuel is a thing of the past.

What I would say to Mr Putin is 'go fish you 'orrible little turd'
 
#20
Biped said:
Isn't it WONDERFUL news that the UK LNG (Liquid Natural Gas) port has now opened? This means we can get enormous volumes of cooled liquid gas (1:400 of the gaseous volume btw) delivered from anywhere in the world (excluding Russia entirely - phew!) by cooled container ship. If I'm not mistaken, there's one open or opening on the EU mainland too.

Looks like holding Europe to ransom, using energy as a fuel is a thing of the past.

What I would say to Mr Putin is 'go fish you 'orrible little turd'
First of all LNG is much more expensive than gas delivered by pipes. Also such a port is useless without plants that produce LNG. And there could be a shortage of LNG for other reasons.

http://www.energy-business-review.com/article_feature.asp?guid=02F0CE4F-ECC7-4A58-9355-F286011618E7

UK wholesale gas prices have been at a premium to the US market; however, this has failed to encourage LNG shippers, which have diverted tankers away from the UK.
...
With the National Balancing Point (NBP) trading at around half a dollar higher than the Henry Hub (the US equivalent of the NBP), for the summer 2008 period as quoted on the NYMEX, and around $3 more on average for winter 2008-09, the signals are unambiguous. However, the supply-side response has been minimal at best. Since the start of winter 2007-08 (October 1, 2007) there have been only 10 deliveries to the UK out of a possible 21 or 22 cargoes (approximately 45%-48% less than expected).
From strategic point of view there is no alternative to Russian gas. Europe needs it anyway.

UK gas cosumptions is 100bln cm. per year
Ukrainian gas-pipe system is able to pump 140bln cm per year
The EU with Ukraine plan increase it to 200bln cm.

So expensive and mainly politically motivated projects (North Stream and South Stream) could be useless. And mr.Putin is so nervous because there is a real cause for it.

Of course, it would be logical to ask Russia, is she plan to use this increased capacity. If no then the money would be wasted without any effect.

Though they are not Russia's money and Europe is free to waste them. However I believe in happy end.

Really this plan is mutually profitable. The EU would have reliable gas supplies, Russia would have money and ability to increase gas export. Ukraine would have new investments, more money for transit, new job places.
 

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