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More MiG15s than Mustangs, more Avro Ansons than Zeros

#21
AFAIK this was the Yak-3. In the 1990s some blokes found an abandoned factory somewhere in Siberia, where all work was stopped right after May 8th, 1945. All jigs and tooling was still there, plus lots of "as new" parts (Russians tend to use a lot of Cosmoline to preserve their equipment, sh*t to remove, but it really keeps the parts free from corrosion). The only thing missing was the engine, as the original Soviet engine hasn't been built since the 1950s. But there were still lots of American Allison engines of similar vintage available, which happened to fit perfectly under the cowling and which had practically the same performance as the Soviet engine.
So these guys offered brand new WW2 fighters for sale, for a fraction of what a restored Spitfire or Mustanfg would cost. I have heard something in the region of $100,000.
Btw., the Yak-3 was not a P-51 clone but Yakovlev's own and very successful design.
Now a new build Yak does ring a bell.
 
#22
Antonov An-2, production 1947-present. I'd always assumed it ceased production with the demise of the CCCP...
Have you ever been in one? They are positively agricultural, drip can under the engine, like being in a flying shed, but they go on forever. I had a few cabbies in one in the Czech Republic when I went there skydiving, something like 15 euros for a ride wether you jumped or not, loads of German bints used to go up for a ride to watch the sky gods jump........usual smut awaited.
 
#23
Have you ever been in one? They are positively agricultural, drip can under the engine, like being in a flying shed, but they go on forever. I had a few cabbies in one in the Czech Republic when I went there skydiving, something like 15 euros for a ride wether you jumped or not, loads of German bints used to go up for a ride to watch the sky gods jump........usual smut awaited.
Yes, a bloke I know owned one, which he bought from the Polish military for 30,000 Euros. I went up several times with him, and if I had enough spare money I'd buy one for myself.
 
#24
Yes, a bloke I know owned one, which he bought from the Polish military for 30,000 Euros. I went up several times with him, and if I had enough spare money I'd buy one for myself.
Me too, though I do like the Yak52.

Saw an AN2 done out as a 'mobile home' touring affair, bloody great things. They had one at the DZ near Madrid too, but that one was not airworthy;).
 
#26
As I recall just about every Mustang, Harvard, and Chipmunk on the Canadian registry in the 70s and 80s had an Experimental status.
Probably because the manufacturers withdrew their product support, thinking it economically not viable anymore to have a bunch of engineers designing fixes for snags and keeping the manuals updated for a few long out of production aircraft.The same happened to Concorde and e.g. the BAC 1-11, grounding all of them worldwide.
 
#27
If money were no object, my favourite Russkie would be one of these.

I'm hoping Eagle Dynamics/Digital Combat Simulations bring one out for virtual pilots to enjoy.
 
#28
Have you ever been in one? They are positively agricultural, drip can under the engine, like being in a flying shed, but they go on forever. I had a few cabbies in one in the Czech Republic when I went there skydiving, something like 15 euros for a ride wether you jumped or not, loads of German bints used to go up for a ride to watch the sky gods jump........usual smut awaited.
I took a jump ride in a AN2 in Poland 1988 ish.
It was without doubt the slowest jump ship I ever boarded.
As a low level transport I guess it had it's place, in its time.

The Polish girls were much more fun .
 
#29
The enormous scores amassed by Luftwaffe aces were largely because they didn't rotate pilots through 'rest tours' as the RAF and USAAF did. That meant that the good ones did very well indeed, particularly in the first 18 months of Barbarossa when Soviet aircrew and aircraft were of a very poor quality.

However, as the qualitative edge was reversed, the vast majority of Luftwaffe fighter pilots were increasingly inexperienced who lasted very little time indeed. By the end of the war, the Soviets had more aces than the Germans, albeit with much lower individual scores than the Luftwaffe 'experten.'

I remember seeing something, just after the Russians made friends with everyone else in the playground - for a while, about a P51 Mustang clone made by them in WW2. Must have been '91 or '92, they still had the know how and workers and knocked out 6, or so, brand spanking new, only thing missing was the engine and avionics, intended for sale to people with lots of money.

Anyone remember that?
As others have said, the were new build Yak-9s.



I'm sure the source is impeccable. But it wouldn't be the first time the Sovs fibbed about production in order to show how far ahead of the big bad West they were would it?
I suspect the figures are pretty accurate. The Soviets churned quite unbelievable numbers of aircraft and other military hardware out as the war progressed. Moreover, losses on the Eastern Front dwarfed those in the West for a number of reasons.

A great many of their aircraft are hugely overlooked in terms of their quality and contribution. The Yak-9 and especially the La-7 were a match for anything the West had at the time. Meanwhile, the Pe-2 and Tu-2 were some of the finest light bombers of the war.





Ironically, their engines appeared to be a particular area where they struggled...some things never change!

Regards,
MM
 
#30
I remember seeing something, just after the Russians made friends with everyone else in the playground - for a while, about a P51 Mustang clone made by them in WW2. Must have been '91 or '92, they still had the know how and workers and knocked out 6, or so, brand spanking new, only thing missing was the engine and avionics, intended for sale to people with lots of money.

Anyone remember that?
Yak-3's? IIRC
 
#31
Effendi said:
I remember seeing something, just after the Russians made friends with everyone else in the playground - for a while, about a P51 Mustang clone made by them in WW2. Must have been '91 or '92, they still had the know how and workers and knocked out 6, or so, brand spanking new, only thing missing was the engine and avionics, intended for sale to people with lots of money.

Anyone remember that?
As others have said, the were new build Yak-9s.
According to this Wikipedia article they are Yak-3s, sold under the name Yak-3M by Yakovlev.
Yakovlev Yak-3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edit: I just found out that you can also get Yak-9 replicas from Yakovlev.
 
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#32
I took a jump ride in a AN2 in Poland 1988 ish.
It was without doubt the slowest jump ship I ever boarded.
As a low level transport I guess it had it's place, in its time.

The Polish girls were much more fun .
It takes less than 100 meters of runway to get into the air, and landing distances are similar. If you have an engine failure the manual says to adjust the pitch that the airspeed will be around 50 km/h (I forgot the exact figure) and the aircraft will come down like a parachute and most likely still be repairable without too much effort.
 
#33
There have been several attempts to fit turboprops, both Russian and American, to the An-2, to get it certified in the West, with Western avionics. The Russian one used Glushenkov turboprops and was officially called the An-3 but was not a sales success. Several have been modded to accept Garrett or PT-6 engines in the West but the FAA will not accept them, as they claim that the Russians will not admit what certifying code they used in 1947, or some such utter bollox, so they have rolled in with Cessna and other turboprop makers to keep the An-2 from being freely available in the US for commercial use, despite it's clearly proven utility as a bush plane. Some US owners have persisted with them as private aircraft but even their relatively cheap avgas gets guzzled by the original radial so it's very hard to sustain it in the US. There are thousands of donor airframes in the East and a ready market in the US but no...
 
#34
With regard to Russian aircraft of WW 2, they operated a system whereby any aircraft that reached an operating life of 40-50 hours at the front was subject to a Commission at the Squadron level, whereby a decision was made to either overhaul the aircraft or officially write it off and strip it for spares. Now, given the unwillingness of any Russian officer to actually take a risk without a direct order, it was easier to junk the aircraft, especially wooden-hulled Yaks, as spare parts were in constant short supply and it was easier to order and recieve a new aircraft from the Depot. Metal aircraft had priority for overhaul as they tended to have a longer service life so many,many wooden aircraft were simply scrapped or abandoned as the Fronts moved, if they got damaged beyond local repair. Because of highly variable quality, it was often a case that allegedly transferrable parts would not fit, even on supposedly identical aircraft. They had constant problems with getting good quality wood and glue for their construction of airframes and it was also hard to ensure quality when the system usually shot factory managers for failures and the workforce were often badly trained, ill-fed, ill-housed and worked to the bone ...Squadrons tended to get run down to about five aircraft and then get stood down for refit, as their manpower system was much like the Germans. You fought til you died or got wounded and leave was scarce, if not impossible.....Later, when Lend-lease brought in foreign aircraft and they reached wide distribution among the air armies, it was found that praising foreign aircraft over Russian ones could have implications for one's future. Despite this, Russian engineers were intensely interested in them and some of the best blueprints and technical drawings extant of Axis aircraft are of Russian origin. Full sets of some Me 109 subtype drawings are extinct in the West yet survive in Russia.
 
#35
There have been several attempts to fit turboprops, both Russian and American, to the An-2, to get it certified in the West, with Western avionics. The Russian one used Glushenkov turboprops and was officially called the An-3 but was not a sales success. Several have been modded to accept Garrett or PT-6 engines in the West but the FAA will not accept them, as they claim that the Russians will not admit what certifying code they used in 1947, or some such utter bollox, so they have rolled in with Cessna and other turboprop makers to keep the An-2 from being freely available in the US for commercial use, despite it's clearly proven utility as a bush plane. Some US owners have persisted with them as private aircraft but even their relatively cheap avgas gets guzzled by the original radial so it's very hard to sustain it in the US. There are thousands of donor airframes in the East and a ready market in the US but no...
Actually you can run an AN-2 on MOGAS, but it will still guzzle 200 liters per hour.
 
#37
Unsurprisingly, the tactic when attacking the IL-2 was to come in from behind. Luftwaffe pilots would try to take out the rear gunner (stop it...) before closing for the kill. A sign that the gunner was dead was that the rear-facing gun would drop.

The solution was to fit a spring to the gun which would keep it up even if the gunner was hit. The person who came up with the spring idea was awarded the Order of Lenin.
 
#39
the IL-2 also had a vulnerable oil cooler, whose location was known to every Luftwaffe pilot...and the Il-2s rear gun was a fast-firing .5 inch, which could ruin a Daimler-Benz in a heartbeat, which is why Luftwaffe pilots attacked from below and behind if possible or from a beam attack. Erich Hartmann claimed four in one pass one day; he shot up the first, which fell out of formation, at very low level. The other three took avoiding action to avoid hitting the first and all three, being fully loaded, were unable to pull up and they all flew into the ground. Three kills without firing a shot....Otto Kittel shot down 80 of them and was killed by the rear gunner of the 81st.
 
#40
Interesting list, cheers Stab.

If you add the 6000 odd Il-10s built, the Sturmovik family production figures were even more impressive! The Il-2/Il-10 also had a lot more character than the Cessna; I'd own one over a 172 anyday!!



It's incredible that there's only one airworthy Il-2 remaining.

Regards,
MM
Only two are flying now . The II-2 was also all wood construction from the Armoured bathtub back. In an aircraft mag there was photos of one coming out of a lake.
When I lived at Brisbane Oz, at Archerfield Airport, they had an AN2. They flew it at an air show I went to, amazing how a plane can fly backwards into the wind.
 

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