More CHAV than Cav

#41
goon_bde said:
Manninagh said:
Older Subalterns at commissioning (I believe the average is now 23) will have to spend less time commanding troops as platoon or troop commanders if they are to hit the dates for future promotions.

On balance, therefore, I would rather see more 18-year old Officer Cadets recruited. Those who wish to could pursue an in-service degree later - and not have the debt!
Erm, you're out of touch. Not heard of LTOS???
18 -19 Yr old Officers? Rather have a Sgt running a Pl/Tp, thanks!!!

In Service Degree - my experience is that ISD pax, whether they be Shriv or the new programme, lack the maturity, social skills and general broad-mindedness of 'normal' graduates!
Quite true on the LTOS business, but I agree with a good deal of what Manninagh has said. Advice from your Tp seniors is always going to be important, regardless of age or pre-service 'grounding', and there is case for the more aged (not meant to insult!) young officers have a different take on the job, for better and for worse by equal measure.

The financial side is obviously better for the graduate (do we really do it for the money? undoubtedly a combination of "yes" and "no" I'd say), -but I can't help thinking that two-and-a-bit years is not long enough as a Tp/Pl Comd. Non-grads will get a good three years at least, and be able to go off and do another broadening job or two (BATUS Staff, Long Look, ADC, etc.) before making Captain. I'm certainly not saying that grads can't do thise jobs, but they have far less time at RD to fit it in.

Of course, opinions will vary considerably between Inf/RAC/REME etc, but for example, after a six-month Tp Ldrs Cse, and three op tours (one short tour), I figure that in that subaltern period I've spent far less than half of the time with my guys at RD. Disappointing because you only get to do it once, but also the soldiers don't always get what they need from their Tp Ldr. Again, not meant to sound patronising to soldiers or demeaning to Sgts who know the job well, but of course there are the things that subbies can and should do that adds the value that SNCOs cannot. And there's always the comedy value as well!
 
#42
goon_bde said:
Manninagh said:
Older Subalterns at commissioning (I believe the average is now 23) will have to spend less time commanding troops as platoon or troop commanders if they are to hit the dates for future promotions.

On balance, therefore, I would rather see more 18-year old Officer Cadets recruited. Those who wish to could pursue an in-service degree later - and not have the debt!
Erm, you're out of touch. Not heard of LTOS???
18 -19 Yr old Officers? Rather have a Sgt running a Pl/Tp, thanks!!!

In Service Degree - my experience is that ISD pax, whether they be Shriv or the new programme, lack the maturity, social skills and general broad-mindedness of 'normal' graduates!
Quite true on the LTOS business, but I agree with a good deal of what Manninagh has said. Advice from your Tp seniors is always going to be important, regardless of age or pre-service 'grounding', and there is case for the more aged (not meant to insult!) young officers have a different take on the job, for better and for worse by equal measure.

The financial side is obviously better for the graduate (do we really do it for the money? undoubtedly a combination of "yes" and "no" I'd say), -but I can't help thinking that two-and-a-bit years is not long enough as a Tp/Pl Comd. Non-grads will get a good three years at least, and be able to go off and do another broadening job or two (BATUS Staff, Long Look, ADC, etc.) before making Captain. I'm certainly not saying that grads can't do thise jobs, but they have far less time at RD to fit it in.

Of course, opinions will vary considerably between Inf/RAC/REME etc, but for example, after a six-month Tp Ldrs Cse, and three op tours (one short tour), I figure that in that subaltern period I've spent far less than half of the time with my guys at RD. Disappointing because you only get to do it once, but also the soldiers don't always get what they need from their Tp Ldr. Again, not meant to sound patronising to soldiers or demeaning to Sgts who know the job well, but of course there are the things that subbies can and should do that adds the value that SNCOs cannot. And there's always the comedy value as well!
 
#43
goon_bde said:
Is it me, or are the latest generation of YOs a bunch of over opionated CHAVVERS?
Are you going to let everybody in here know that you are RLC, or maintain the illusion that you are in the Blues & Royals?

I have worked with a number of young Officers (variety of arms/services) recently (including HQ environment) and the majority have been excellent and if anything, more disposed to uphold tradition and standards then their predecessors in the early-Nineties... They have, for the most part also been able to demonstrate spelling and grammar!

As usual you seem far too keen to run down the British Army as a result of some in-built "class & tradition" model that does not really match reality or history. Do you so easily forget we have had and trained Officers from the Middle East, Iraq, America, Milton Keynes and Borstal *, we are the best in the world at taking an individual and no matter what background they are from making them part of a team or its leader. Our failing, which is quite understandable is when one of our component parts (e.g. you) cannot be bothered to influence those who need it with their own conduct. But I doubt that I need to lecture you about leadership...

* Caveat: Although I attained this last scrap of knowledge from a report on Bad Lads' Army, I do not watch this or any other type of infernal reality programme.
 
#45
Grads loss, our gain. I was lucky enough to effectively have three troop command tours and a three year holiday at Shrivenham (sorry that should say work hard on my in-service degree). Unfortuantley it then took me a few more years to realise that Troop Commanding was the best fun I was going to have in uniform!!!
 
#46
I don't know if this is relevant to the thread but you might like the quote by Butler.....
 

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