More cash for Defence?

#2
But, it must be remembered that all sorts of creative accounting was used to make that paltry 2%, including moving pension payouts to the Defence Budget.
 
#3
As a total civilian: yes obviously. The worlds not getting any safer and I'd like me and mine to be kept safe - rough men standing guard and all that.
 
#4
Would they do anymore ‘defending’ with more money, how much money would that take, and how would it contribute to better defending from terror?

Currently defence is under funded and has to be heavily justified
Personnel are under recruited against the number that there are meant to be

Would more money mean more ‘defence’ or just get sucked into what’s under spent already ?
 
#5
http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2017_03/20170313_170313-pr2017-045.pdf
Once again, 2% on Defence includes armed forces pensions and a lot more than an Army, Air Force or Navy:
Pension payments made directly by the government to retired military and civilian employees of military departments should be included regardless of whether these payments are made from the budget of the MoD or other ministries. Expenditure for peacekeeping and humanitarian operations (paid by MoD or other ministries), the destruction of weapons, equipment and ammunition, and the costs associated with inspection and control of equipment destruction are included in defence expenditure. Research and development (R&D) costs are to be included in defence expenditure. R&D costs should also include those for projects that do not successfully lead to production of equipment. Expenditure for the military component of mixed civilian-military activities is included, but only when this military component can be specifically accounted for or estimated.

Financial assistance by one Allied country to another, specifically to support the defence effort of the recipient, should be included in the defence expenditure of the donor country and not in the defence expenditure of the receiving country. Expenditure on NATO Common infrastructure is included in the total defence expenditure of each NATO country only to the extent of that country's net contribution. War damage payments and spending on civil defence are both excluded from the NATO definition of defence expenditure. NATO uses United States dollars (USD) as the common currency denominator. The exchange rate applied to each Ally is the average annual rate published by the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The values for defence expenditure are expressed in current prices; constant prices; current prices and exchange rates; as well as constant prices and exchange rates.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
In the good old days before amalgamation under the MoD, the Navy Estimates started with Vote 'A', the pensions and other overheads that couldn't be challenged. Then votes for manpower, ships, kit etc.
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#8
According to Fallon the 2% NATO requirement should be thought of as a floor rather than a ceiling (Doh!) and he's pushing May to increase funding. Needed relief given the fall in GBP.

Michael Fallon: Britain must increase NATO contribution to combat terror
According to me, my tax rate should be thought of as a ceiling, rather than a floor. I'm pushing the HMRC to reduce it. I think I have a better chance.

But you're probably right. After all, what possible reason could Conservative politicians at conference have to say things they aren't actually going to do?
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Minor political problem is that for Tories to admit that the country is undefended would point to the sorry history of defence funding under Conservatives (who believe (ish) in balanced budgets, which inevitably means cuts as numeric and commercial illiterates trash procurement) compared to Labour, who believe in lavishing money on public services, to be paid for by grand children.

And never forget it was Labour who sold the RR Nene to Soviet Union for civilian uses. When (presumably due to an administrative error in Moscow) it turned up in MiG-15 the whole Cold War got rather serious.
 
#13
Here is an interesting chart:

Obviously the advancement in defence technology means things cost a lot more these days, not to mention inflation etc. In 1990 when we had a much larger defence capability the Government spent £24 Billion, In 2020 we are spending over double.
 

Attachments

#14
Here is an interesting chart:

Obviously the advancement in defence technology means things cost a lot more these days, not to mention inflation etc. In 1990 when we had a much larger defence capability the Government spent £24 Billion, In 2020 we are spending over double.
Lovely advanced technology and still struggling with recruiting numbers to man it all!
 
#15
Looking at the Nato definition of 2%, which includes pensions, how long before at least a quarter of defence spending is received by myself and fellow arrse's.
If only we could claim expenses like the House of Lords:):):):):):):):)
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#16
Here is an interesting chart:

Obviously the advancement in defence technology means things cost a lot more these days, not to mention inflation etc. In 1990 when we had a much larger defence capability the Government spent £24 Billion, In 2020 we are spending over double.
Never measure spending in gross amounts. It's always as a % of the whole (or GDP).

Data | The World Bank

Looks a bit different...
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
Here is an interesting chart:

Obviously the advancement in defence technology means things cost a lot more these days, not to mention inflation etc. In 1990 when we had a much larger defence capability the Government spent £24 Billion, In 2020 we are spending over double.

Doesn't account for Defence inflation.
 
#18
We could always get rid of the X Factor...
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#19
We could always get rid of the X Factor...
Nah. The prospect of having to that load of balls at Christmas is a much greater deterrent to potential invaders than the Army.

Soft power...
 

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