MoD withdraws £114m comms system (and ARRSE gets a mention)

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by kes1, Sep 10, 2009.

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  1. Did a quick search but apologies if this has already been posted:

    Surely no one on here would say such a thing about the MoD?? :twisted:
  2. It certainly has beaten a lot of competition for that slot.
  3. You adding to any thread is only likely to drag it into the gutter :p
  4. Blimey,journos reading this site.Better be careful what we say.
  5. At what point will some one actually look deeply into MoD procurement? True, we generally only hear about the crap ones but have any of our major or even minor projects been a success story? I can only think of a couple. Who's fault is it?
  6. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    I would still like to know what recent (say 20 years) equipments we have gone our own way with have resulted in significant export success. One of the main supposed advantages of propping up our own industry is so they can then take the kit into the export market thus putting back into the nations coffers their subsidy via tax revenue.

    We tried to do a list a while ago but it was a very short one.

    Se we get some good kit that no one else ever buys or we get shite kit that no one else ever buys
  7. Good idea meridian. I could give you the lists of aviation related products over the past 20 years and see what export success we've had with it?
  8. does that mean "will be stored until as obsolete as a green goddess, and then issued in an emergency"
  9. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    The only aviation one we could come up with was Hawk and Maritime Lynx and I think these would predate the modern integrated industrial approach the MoD seems to be constantly waxing about.

    The Typhoon and Tornado to Saudi were'nt really open competitive deals so although they did bring cash/oil in it wasnt entirely on the merits of the equipment.

    Might be worth doing a parallel list of kit we bought off the shelf that was excellent and kit we developed that despite being an export failure was still a workhorse

    Its a complex situation I guess and I don't doubt anyone who has an industrial defence base to support does any better

    Over to you chaps
  10. Well, I've been designing stuff for the MoD for most of my career so I'll offer my view ... By and large the MoD gets what it asks for. That's because it's the only way industry can get paid - and we do like to get paid. Mmmmm money. It's what paying the mortgage is all about. That, and being commercial businesses.

    Trouble is, the MoD usually has very little idea of what it actually wants. It can't find out as it lacks the systems architecture and engineering skills to do so, and it still hasn't worked out that all employing consultants produces is richer consultants. Then there's the grudge fights between Customer 1 and Customer 2, often along inter-service or capbadge lines. This gets even more interesting when some ex-military become civil servants as they can't hack real life and turn it into a three-way match.

    Then there's the people. Military staff are parachuted in with none of the necessary skills or knowledge. And as soon as they get up to speed they get posted out. The rest are civil servants whose skills are such that they can't get more money for doing the same thing in industry and the occasional fast streamer who bounces from post to post, never stopping long enough to learn something useful.

    And the culture .... it rewards long hours and following process, not results. As long as you've ticked the boxes and sweat enough you can deliver nothing and be rewarded for it.
  11. The section quoted by the BBC seems to be from ARRSEpedia.


    BBC version:

    "cursed with some of the worst procurement decisions, shoddy workmanship [and] non-existent quality control".


    "cursed with some of the worst procurement decisions, shoddy workmanship, non-existent quality control measures and so-called support arrangements which verge on criminal neglect. "

  12. AS 90...? apart from a tendancy to not like working in hot, sandy, dusty conditions and blow up on protest it seems to do the job without any complaints
  13. Sidebar.....Just HOW much of the data being whizzed about is actually of any importance....?
  14. Challenger? Warrior? Rapier? Lt Gun? the entire CVR(T) series?, Mamba, Exped Equipment? Minimi? USGL? Mastiff? SV? New tankers?......not all without some problem, occasional overruns, some technical issues but utlimately delivering world class equipments.


    Everybody from the EC (changing requirements), DE&S (optimistic business cases), Industry (optimistic proposals), FLC (poor quality feedback)........What Sam Cowan called the conspiracy of optimism - if you want to keep your project you have to talk it up not say "well actually it will really take 5 years not 3 and cost 1.5 times as much as the budget"
  15. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

    Sold to Poland, at least the important bits anyway