MoD vows to fight Sexual Discrimination

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Proximo, Jun 24, 2005.

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  1. From The Guardian:

    The full story is here.

    I don't want to get 'sucked in' to a raging debate about this - the fact that such large numbers of our people clearly have an issue about it is in itself a good indicator that all is not well.

    My main concern is the apparent fact that our procedures for handling and dealing with these complaints appear to be crap at best, and utterly non-existent at worst.

    It goes without saying that this sort of thing is utterly unacceptable in Her Majesty's Armed Forces, but I only hope that we don't end up with a situation where the accused are guilty until proven innocent.
  2. Hummmm how many of those complaints are from recruits unhappy with being beasted or told they are crap and should find annother career?

    Genuine sexual harrasement is unacceptable but I think many of those complaining should not have joined or allowed to get in.

    Just like squaddies give them an inch......
  3. mysteron

    mysteron LE Book Reviewer

    "It goes without saying that this sort of thing is utterly unacceptable in Her Majesty's Armed Forces, but I only hope that we don't end up with a situation where the accused are guilty until proven innocent. "

    Too late. This is already the case.

    Recurring rant I have but:

    Youth of Today: Stick up for yourself, dry your eyes and take some personal responsibility.

    Because, ultimately that is what it all boils down to.
  4. I think that the situation already exists and that the management doesn't know how to deal with it or in some cases won't deal with it effectively. Guilty until proven innocent is still the order of the day, despite what is said. The management have careers to think of and they won't allow a little thing like justice to hold them up.

    Nobody should be subjected to any behaviour which undermines or humiliates them, but it would be interesting to see the full circumstances of each complaint. Every one of us on this site can relate a tale of a female soldier relying on her gender to get her through a difficult situation. I'm not saying that all of them do it, it's a minority. Even the ladies here will know of examples. It would be interesting to see if this minority however, were the same people who have complained. Each of us will also know someone (occassionally in authority) who is further right than Sid the Sexist, so much so that you wonder why he has been with us so long.

    The piece cites an incident with military police officer Catherine Brumfitt. If the instructor had used inappropriate terminology in a lesson, then that could have easily been dealt with at a local level. Was that the extent of her complaint? If so, why did she go to the papers? Hidden agenda? I should laugh as I have no time for the monkeys, but I understand that like the civvy police they do teach their people how to deal with rape victims? Maybe the bloke was putting over the information in what he thought was a 'wordly wise roughty toughty squaddie environment'? He used the wrong choice of words, but what is he guilty of......being a sex pest......or being niaive? Brummfitt is referred to as a 'military police officer'? Was she commissioned or is that the press getting the terminology wrong again? If she is an officer, why didn't she deal with it herself and nip it in the bud there and then? Surely if she is a commissioned officer and a police officer then she should have had the morale courage to do so? How does she get about her daily business keeping squaddies in line?

    Morale courage, now there's a thing you don't see too much of in the Army today. Perhaps if we had a bit more of it we wouldn't have the situation we now have with cases like this. Keep yourselves and you oppos in check and we might not see this sort of thing. Similarly, those who have a complaint should keep their feet on the ground and report it to their OCs or the police, not to the press. But then again, I suppose that your OC won't give you money to compensate for the career you weren't good enough for.

    I don't know about anyone else on here, but given what I have seen in the past, I wonder how some people can sleep at night.
  5. mysteron

    mysteron LE Book Reviewer

    Totally agree with you Biscuits.

    I believe that it was the papers getting it wrong and describing a soldier as a police officer was merely journo speak again.

    As ranted above, people do not want to take personal responsibility for themselves or others anymore. It is worrying to see this trend growing, especially in the officer corps.

    If people want to they could probably prove that a fountain pen is sexist, racist or some other thought crime in a court of law. It really has boiled down to the fact that these spinless, feckless gits do not have sufficient gumption to stand up and defend themselves or someone else. They must run to some EO counsellor, etc.

  6. Didn't we use to have this thing called 'moral courage'. I would have thought that a bit more of it all round would prevent much 'harrassment' be it based on age, sex or the fact that you are an Iraqi POW.
  7. Perhaps if it was encouraged by the managment, people wouldn't be afraid of showing that they have it. However, as a substantial amount of our officers lack the quality themselves and consider those who have it a threat.........who will show us the way? WOs are just as bad. There are very few Warrant Officers out there who will stick thier heads above the parapet.
  8. Sorry, but to anyone outside the PC-brainwashed mainstream, this situation is a blindingly obvious result of mixing sexes in the first place. I don't know why so-called leaders delude themselves that they can simply legislate away about 3 million years' worth of genetic hard-wiring in the brains of men and women.....

    (pause, gets flame-proof overalls on..)

    From a non-PC observers perspective, there has been a noticable and rather alarming degradation of field army cohesion and discipline over the past 10 to 15 years mostly, but not entirely, due to mixing of the sexes within units. This is coupled with a increasing trend for the leadership to stay "on message" and cover up or ignore problems and warning signs. One has to wonder, what will force people to face reality? - the next bloody, hard-fought war.....?
  9. Agreed 4 (T).......they should have kept the WRAC.
  10. This is the official EOC reportage on 'military police officer' Catherine Brumfitt. I suggest you take a deep breath before reading it, and then go for a brew and fag afterwards...

    The link is here.

    I'm speechless.
  11. mysteron

    mysteron LE Book Reviewer

    Burn the Witch!
  12. This story was initially broken by our chum Paul Keetch MP:

    The full story is here.

    Good to see Paul cutting to the quick of the matter as usual, and slightly depressing that it's taken this long to surface...
  13. Is it me or have I read this wrong? It reads as if the Sergeant was her reporting officer? How can this be? I suspect that this is either obviously wrong, or that they may be referring to a course report written by the Sergeant .

    I believe that she does have grounds for a complaint if indeed any reporting officer spitefully took her legs out after she' complained about him, whether there was truth in the complaint or not. The writing of any reports after the event concerniong the complaint should have been done by someone else. The again, this is a one sided story, we haven't been allowed to see the evidence surrounding the incident.

    As for fining the Sergeant. Ludicrous.......or should I say lucrative? How did they arrive at that sum? How would she deal with bunch of drunks calling her name in the street had she stayed in? I would imagine that she had already encountered that situation in the course of her time as a policewoman.

    Why didn't everyone else in the classroom sue him as well?

    All this sort of thing does is enhance prejudices which are already there and create prejudices amongst those who never had them before. It also gives out a signal to others that there is money to be made out of the system.

    The Sergeant would probably have got less had he snotted her.

    So, if you don't want to get yourself a hefty fine.......don't swear in front of your juniors.........hit them. It's cheaper in the long run.
  14. Maybe if weaklings, and I do refer to these people as weaklings were weeded (no pun intended) out early on we would save ourselves much time and money. Are they really in the right job if they are offended by terms such as "wanking"? Once more the militray is being asked to conform to civil societys standards. If you cant take it dont join.

    ***** :evil:
  15. If they don't join.....nobody else will. Despite the propanganda....the Recruiting Offices' aren't beating off potential soldiers at the door with sticks.

    This Government has handed so much power to Brussels that many of our laws can be over ridden by Europe and we are now subjected to their nutty continental ways. There's more to come as well.