MOD - Unfit For Purpose & Anti-Military

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by old_rat, Jun 3, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. I managed three and a bit pages before closing the link.

    A bitter and twisted, sad old staff officer. Probably a passed over S02, at best, from a bonk Regt/Corp/Service.

    No-one is more aware of the problems within the Civil Service than myself. There are some very real problems with Civilians understanding the needs of the military and the huge number of development schemes which overpromote people who haven't got a clue (Fast Stream is just the begining). However, most of this article is just pump.

    As with all things, there is the flip side. Perhaps an annonymous Civil Servant should pen a page about incompetent staff officers that haven't seen command since 1978, the wastage of finances on spurious 'military need', etc?

    I'm standing by for ill-thought out responces from people, who've never been near the building, about how all Civil Servants are nobs.
  2. "Most people still believe that the MOD is essentially a military organisation. It is not. It is an organisation dominated numerically, culturally and structurally by civil servants and consultants."

    Untrue - less than half the total number of staff in MB are civil servants.

    "You just have to spend a few days at the MOD before you realise that the culture there is not just non-military, but anti-military."

    What a pile of pure unmitigated garbage. Great soundbite, no facts to back this claim up.

    "The reverse is true in the UK where the Civil Service and its “unions” not only resist the wearing of uniforms but also any systematic secondments (as opposed to hand-picked placements) from the military."

    That is again complete rubbish. MOD CS have nothing to do with uniform policy. If the services chose to wear the uniform then that is their call. I remember 90th aniversary of the RAF - the CS were very supportive of seeing the people in uniform and kept asking why others didn't do the same. If the Forces don't wear uniform, don't blame the CS, blame your superiors.

    "Now the ratio of civilians to service-members is closer to six to one — "
    How can this be - there are 3500 people in MB, of which less than 2000 are civil servants. There are 79,000 CS, vs 185,000 regular forces. Again no truth in this statement.

    "For many of them the MOD, with its part-time minister, is merely a stepping stone to greater things. "
    Errr who exactly? Its almost impossible to transfer out to greater things. The idea that we join as a route to get elsewhere is laughable.

    "has less to do with the defence of the realm than with policy goals such as Europ­ean integration, the implementation of UN mandates and the expansion (and therefore dilution) of Nato"

    Sorry, which course did I miss? Clearly the MOD CS "how to ruin the country and let Brussels in through the backdoor" course needs to have better recruiting material.

    Thanks for the biggest piece of fatuous guff I've seen all week. I'm guessing passed over SO2 who didn't like the fact that his project got binned?
  3. this just reinforces my ever-growing support for a military coup..get rid of Brown, his cronies and they're ass-licking pencil pushers all the way down the chain ;)

  4. "Probably a passed over S02, at best, from a bonk Regt/Corp/Service."

    I wonder if you would like to divulge which Regt/Corps/Service you consider to be "bonk"?
  5. Jim,

    Unless you are being particularly broad-brush with your statistics I can only assume that basic arithmetic is one such area that the CS need to improve upon.
  6. RLC:p i know you weren't asking me but my trollish nature couldn't resist a feed like that.
  7. "Unless you are being particularly broad-brush with your statistics I can only assume that basic arithmetic is one such area that the CS need to improve upon."

    Sorry, my bad. I was being rather broad brush - the total number of civil servants (in the broadest sense) is just under 2000 - but this includes cleaners, catering staff, gym staff, security etc. The actual number of civil servant desk officers is much lower - nearer the 1000 mark. One advantage of wearing uniforms to work would be to show just how few civil servants actually work in Main Building.
  8. Well, as he works in MB as a CS, surely the answer is "all of them"?
  9. umm. All of the above used to be covered by the military anyway at my first unit, so what are you trying to say?
  10. Perhaps you'd do the honours?
  11. 'Fatuous guff', 'unmitigated garbage' and 'probably a passed over SO2' are cheap comments, and a simplistic way of slapping down a piece which, if lacking finer detail, clearly comes from the heart.

    It rings rather too many bells - for me at least - to be comfortable. And yes, I've sat on meetings very like the one described, and met a great many similar attitudes. There is often (though not always, I admit) a very wide gulf between the MOD 'suits' (many of whom may actually wear uniform) and the Forces they are there to support. The higher you look in the MOD, the more you will find that politics and finance take on a disporportionate importance and the loyalties are directed upwards rather than downwards.

    Reality is all too often an inconvenience best ignored.
  12. Perhaps a group of us, yourself included should get together and discuss this issue round a large table over a few pints, cos I'm sure like an business there are people who have got to places that they should not have, I work ofr one of the big four supermarkets, they have just had a cull of regional support staff, (people that go round and advise department managers on ways to improve their department) most people said they were a waste of time and money.... These people were offered interviews for jobs around stock control and merchandising, non of them passed....

    So my point is if people need to reapply for their jobs then so be it, it is done within industry and retail all the time.....

    I don't know the MOD all that well to be honest, however if there is a clash between the CS and Service bods then perhaps there needs to be some one higher up having a look at why.....

    just my thoughts anyway..... I'd be happy to sit and talk


  13. Lucky you didn't need me as an ATO then. I'd have used you as a bomb blanket you thr0bber!
  14. Now I've read it the article does highlight a recurring problem which continues to hamper ops. This can be summarised as 'achievement of process is given higher priority that achievement of ends', a reality that stymies delivery of op output.

    This manifests itself most prominently in the Civil Secretariat, a body that is both dangerous and disingenuous, who worship Govt Regulations and who strike down any heretics who attempt to deviate from them, and who add no value to anything, but rather act as a capability deflator. This poison has leaked all the way down to Bde level, where the Business Partners (a body who neither have any idea of either 'business' or 'partnering') continue to hamper delivery in order to achieve their own very narrow ends.

    Perhaps if this toxic bunch were removed the image of the CS might just improve a tad, but more importantly we just might achieve our ends more effectively, and more efficiently.