MOD to allow people with HIV to enlist

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Thats just a lie you made up (a bit like you making up that pills arent affected by temperature).

I said the Army could use captured ammo and food if it needs to, its unlikely there is a stash of HIV drugs lying around at room temperature in an enemy position.

You seem blissful unaware of the many times the army has fucked up the supply chain for the basics, Telic one, lack of ammo, lack of dessie kit, lack of body armour etc, but you are convinced that all the stops will be pull out of an individuals with HIV.

I am well aware of the potential shortfalls in the supply chain.

But they have never stopped us deploying before.

Am not suggesting all the stops are pulled out, just making the point that the deployment of UU is perfectly feasible.
 
I am well aware of the potential shortfalls in the supply chain.

But they have never stopped us deploying before.

Am not suggesting all the stops are pulled out, just making the point that the deployment of UU is perfectly feasible.


Never deployed to all locations with people needing a daily pill have we?

As I pointed out, when there are shortages there are workarounds (although the occasional death happens) because these shortages are from items that everyone carries.
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Never deployed to all locations with people needing a daily pill have we?

As I pointed out, when there are shortages there are workarounds (although the occasional death happens) because these shortages are from items that everyone carries.

We have deployed to many areas where there is a demand for regular resupply of a multitude of different items, some required more frequently than others.
In terms of medical supplies, we are equipped to a certain minimum scale, these are predetermined by such factors as location, projected time and risks involved.

As stated above, add medication to that scale and it will be in theatre.

Worse case scenario, it can be sent BFPO strapped to a bag of Haribo because they always seem to be able to get through!
 
We have deployed to many areas where there is a demand for regular resupply of a multitude of different items, some required more frequently than others.

Which isnt the same thing as a daily pill so why are you comparing it?


In terms of medical supplies, we are equipped to a certain minimum scale, these are predetermined by such factors as location, projected time and risks involved.

In general terms on medical supplies, they are (once again) not a daily pill for an individual.


As stated above, add medication to that scale and it will be in theatre.

Like body armour should have been in theatre for Telic one? Thats body armour that anyone can wear and doesnt have to be stored at a certain temperature as opposed to one persons medication that does?

Worse case scenario, it can be sent BFPO strapped to a bag of Haribo because they always seem to be able to get through!

Thats odd, when I was sorting out the Booties post for them in FOB Inkerman, there were parcels/letters that had been stacked up for literally weeks for the blokes out on the ground. I also found some uniforms that someone had sent for the RA thinking that BFPO system couldnt possibly fail.

Its almost as if life on tour isnt quite the same as being in a office (at room temperature).
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Which isnt the same thing as a daily pill so why are you comparing it?




In general terms on medical supplies, they are (once again) not a daily pill for an individual.




Like body armour should have been in theatre for Telic one? Thats body armour that anyone can wear and doesnt have to be stored at a certain temperature as opposed to one persons medication that does?



Thats odd, when I was sorting out the Booties post for them in FOB Inkerman, there were parcels/letters that had been stacked up


So going on your logic, we shouldn't deploy anywhere for any reason as we can't rely on resupply of all of the multitude of different items that are required by a modern army?
 
So going on your logic, we shouldn't deploy anywhere for any reason as we can't rely on resupply of all of the multitude of different items that are required by a modern army?

What is it that you have trouble understanding about basic stores?
Most basic stores are interchangable between units, If one unit is low on ammo and another has excess it can be transferred across.
Most basic stores can be transferred among individuals.
Most basic stores do not need to be at room temperature.
Most basic stores are not taken for specific health reasons.
Most basic stores can be taken from the dead/enemy if needed.
Its no secret if Pte Atkins needs water/ammo/food/ECM/playstation game, he just asks his section 2i/c in front of the rest of the section.

So completely different from Pte Blogg who relies on daily medication for HIV that is supposed to be at room temperature .
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
What is it that you have trouble understanding about basic stores?
Most basic stores are interchangable between units, If one unit is low on ammo and another has excess it can be transferred across.
Most basic stores can be transferred among individuals.
Most basic stores do not need to be at room temperature.
Most basic stores are not taken for specific health reasons.
Most basic stores can be taken from the dead/enemy if needed.
Its no secret if Pte Atkins needs water/ammo/food/ECM/playstation game, he just asks his section 2i/c in front of the rest of the section.

So completely different from Pte Blogg who relies on daily medication for HIV that is supposed to be at room temperature .

Because in my experience of the military, there's a huge demand for items that are not "basic stores". And even as you admit it is only some basic stores that are interchangeable.
Items vary dramatically between units and even sub units.

The supply of medical stores is anything but a supply of basics, and yet the AMS cope.

Your argument around this could be applied to any non basic item which are required by a great deal of different and specialised roles.

Or are we meant to obtain all of those from the enemy too?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Lets take one particular example and use it to justify every conflict since and in the future.

I bet Sgt Steven Roberts family are happy to know that the chindits got resupplied within 18 hrs of a request.

Two different examples in seperate posts, using different historical examples at each end of the spectrum
 
Because in my experience of the military, there's a huge demand for items that are not "basic stores". And even as you admit it is only some basic stores that are interchangeable.
Items vary dramatically between units and even sub units.

The supply of medical stores is anything but a supply of basics, and yet the AMS cope.

Your argument around this could be applied to any non basic item which are required by a great deal of different and specialised roles.

Or are we meant to obtain all of those from the enemy too?

Items may well vary but the basic dont, if you break a set of night sight googles and cant get a replacement, it affects the operational ability slightly but no individual health is at risk. You can also have a pile of them sat in an iso container for years.

The supply of medical stores to CPs/PBs is not normally for individuals with HIVs so no the AMS doesnt cope.

A basic item for a great deal of different of specialised role is not the same thing as a pill for an individual. If Pte Atkins needs a widget it doesnt really matter who knows about it, anyone can handle it, it doesnt need to be kept at room temperature, its likely there are more than one in theatre, non consumable are more easily tracked etc.
 
Two different examples in seperate posts, using different historical examples at each end of the spectrum

The army should prep for the worse, not the best.
 

TamH70

MIA
You are aware of the fact that you can not catch HIV from blood on your skin?

That's why blood transfusion service don't wear gloves.

And They work with a lot of blood

Ooh, ooh, I've got this!

What if the shell that's just burst has sent shrapnel not just into the bod with HIV, but also his mates? And shrapnel, being what it is, i.e. nasty, causes bleeding injuries to those too, and with all the chaotic stuff that goes on around a shell-burst, HIS blood gets into THEIR open bodies and blood vessels? It's not very unlikely to happen.

Where's your blood-air barrier then?

Up shit creek without a paddle would be my guess...
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Ooh, ooh, I've got this!

What if the shell that's just burst has sent shrapnel not just into the bod with HIV, but also his mates? And shrapnel, being what it is, i.e. nasty, causes bleeding injuries to those too, and with all the chaotic stuff that goes on around a shell-burst, HIS blood gets into THEIR open bodies and blood vessels? It's not very unlikely to happen.

Where's your blood-air barrier then?

Up shit creek without a paddle would be my guess...

As has been highlighted previously by myself and others, you are far more at risk from the unidentified carriers of the various BBV than an UU HIV.

And throw in tetanus, sepsis and a host of other bacterial contamination in the event you describe.
 

Clunker

Old-Salt
Once they get this issue normalised to wedge the door open next comes.....
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doggie.jpg
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Ooh, ooh, I've got this!

What if the shell that's just burst has sent shrapnel not just into the bod with HIV, but also his mates? And shrapnel, being what it is, i.e. nasty, causes bleeding injuries to those too, and with all the chaotic stuff that goes on around a shell-burst, HIS blood gets into THEIR open bodies and blood vessels? It's not very unlikely to happen.

Where's your blood-air barrier then?

Up shit creek without a paddle would be my guess...

 

TamH70

MIA

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Good.

Now, will that be in every medic's kitbag? At what cost?

I don't think it's worth the candle, this new policy, and I'm of the Alphabetty Spaghetti persuasion, so I don't start with a straight person's biases.

It doesn't need to be in every medical kitbag given that you have a 3 day window after exposure, if injuries are as you suggest, then you will have been casevaced well before then.

And subjected to a raft of medication such as tetanus, antibiotics.
SOPs don't yet advocate for BBV prophylactic treatments.
 

TamH70

MIA
It doesn't need to be in every medical kitbag given that you have a 3 day window after exposure, if injuries are as you suggest, then you will have been casevaced well before then.

And subjected to a raft of medication such as tetanus, antibiotics.
SOPs don't yet advocate for BBV prophylactic treatments.

The important word in your last sentence is "yet".

They soon will be or my name's Pierre Van Hooijdonk*, I'm six foot fifty, and I used to play for Glasgow Celtic as a striker.

*Typed from memory without checking Bing, and it's the correct spelling. Yay!
 

Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
The important word in your last sentence is "yet".

They soon will be or my name's Pierre Van Hooijdonk*, I'm six foot fifty, and I used to play for Glasgow Celtic as a striker.

*Typed from memory without checking Bing, and it's the correct spelling. Yay!


If they were to be SOP it would not be HIV but hep B prophylaxis as that is far more prevalent and easier to catch.

Even in health care, there's no recommended PEP for hep C.
 

Chef

LE
It doesn't need to be in every medical kitbag given that you have a 3 day window after exposure, if injuries are as you suggest, then you will have been casevaced well before then.

And subjected to a raft of medication such as tetanus, antibiotics.
SOPs don't yet advocate for BBV prophylactic treatments.
I was expecting someone to be pointing out that supplies might be held up for 73 hours at above/below room temperature. I'm disappointed.
 
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