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MoD spends £149m on tanks unfit for Afghanistan

#1
MoD spends £149m on tanks unfit for Afghanistan

23.11.09

The Ministry of Defence spent £149 million on an "urgent" upgrade to 900 tanks that are now only being used in training exercises, it was revealed.

The tanks were upgraded for use in Iraq but are unsuitable for deployment in Afghanistan where Mastiff and Ridgback vehicles are better suited to cope with the terrain and threat.

The refit programme, ordered as an "urgent operational requirement" three years ago, saw 900 FV430 variant vehicles given new engines, drive trains and driver controls and reclassified as Bulldogs.

An MoD spokeswoman said: "We provide our Armed Forces with the vehicles that best meet their operational need.

"The Bulldog was specifically upgraded for use in Iraq where it played a key role in providing armoured protection for many personnel.

"In Afghanistan, where the terrain and threats are different, this role is performed by the Mastiff and Ridgback.
More
www.thisislondon.co.uk...nistan.do?
 
#3
The Army are deployed in Afghanistan but that doesn't preclude it from having, or training for, more diverse deployments. Whilst the upgrades shouldn't detract from budget for Afghanistan the Army has a duty to train and equip itself for many roles, not just it's present one.
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#4
Skynet said:
MoD spends £149m on tanks unfit for Afghanistan

23.11.09

The Ministry of Defence spent £149 million on an "urgent" upgrade to 900 tanks that are now only being used in training exercises, it was revealed.
WTF did we get 900 tanks from - or is everythink with a track now counted :?
 
#5
This will probably end up proving to be good value for money. Yes maybe they are not suitable for Afghanistan (according to the papers) , but it has modernised an old platform that would likely be useful in a more conventional war. It has also no doubt delayed the requirement to dob out billions on some versions of FRES until the lessons learned from Iraq and Afghanistan can be incorporated sensibly into its design AND the money can be found.

I don't recall that many people on here being particularly critical of this modernised 'tank' as the press love to call it; indeed haven't a few on Arrse said its reasonably ok ? :)
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#6
Programme started several years ago and was designed to bring the 430 series into line with legislation and save money by not having to buy a full fleet replacement.

Non story.
 
#7
Let me see if I can get this straight - a few years ago we were operating in Iraq AND Afghanistan, and had to spend a lot of money kitting out forces for 2 vastly different operating environments. One reason why we spent so much money was because the press was having a huge go at us for not having the right vehicles to do the job. We then spend a lot of money on upgrading vehicles for Iraq, which because HMG then decides it wants to leave, we find are no longer deployed on Ops?

Can someone point out the scandal to me, as I'm failing to see it? We spend money to support troops on Ops, we complete the Op and put the vehicles to use at home, freeing up other vehicles to use in theatre?

Seems a no brainer to me?
 
#8
Media hindsight is always 20/20, and most of the public think this is the whole story.

Pity they haven't got the brains to look beyond this non-story.
 
#9
jim30 said:
Let me see if I can get this straight - a few years ago we were operating in Iraq AND Afghanistan, and had to spend a lot of money kitting out forces for 2 vastly different operating environments. One reason why we spent so much money was because the press was having a huge go at us for not having the right vehicles to do the job. We then spend a lot of money on upgrading vehicles for Iraq, which because HMG then decides it wants to leave, we find are no longer deployed on Ops?

Can someone point out the scandal to me, as I'm failing to see it? We spend money to support troops on Ops, we complete the Op and put the vehicles to use at home, freeing up other vehicles to use in theatre?

Seems a no brainer to me?
Jim, you missed the bit about the Press shite about the need to pull out, and when we do we are wrong! Just goes to show, things are only an issue if the ******* of the press say so :x
 
#13
Let be honist, after getting rid of the terrable 432 MK1 with the petrol engine, It became one of the best and most versitile vehicals in the history of the British Army, to upgrade it untill we have somthing much better sounds like a good idea
 
#15
tropper66 said:
Let be honist, after getting rid of the terrable 432 MK1 with the petrol engine, It became one of the best and most versitile vehicals in the history of the British Army, to upgrade it untill we have somthing much better sounds like a good idea
Funny really, in '73 in Sennelager we had Mk1 (petrol) 432s. '74-'80 in Osnabrueck we had Mk II s and in Munster 83-86 we had Mk 1s again!
I agree with Tropper the Mk1 was a ball bag and a dangerous one at that. It did, as pointed out, have BVs which were handy on a cold winter's night.
 
#16
Markintime said:
tropper66 said:
Let be honist, after getting rid of the terrable 432 MK1 with the petrol engine, It became one of the best and most versitile vehicals in the history of the British Army, to upgrade it untill we have somthing much better sounds like a good idea
Funny really, in '73 in Sennelager we had Mk1 (petrol) 432s. '74-'80 in Osnabrueck we had Mk II s and in Munster 83-86 we had Mk 1s again!
I agree with Tropper the Mk1 was a ball bag and a dangerous one at that. It did, as pointed out, have BVs which were handy on a cold winter's night.
It was never cold in my 432, almost every time I dropped into the driving seat the battery burst into flames under my arrae, and the amount of cammo nets I burnt, used to drive with a fire extinguisher near to hand. One of the best was when OA had a petrol leak and on of the radio operators light a fag in the back, the CO was extreamly miffed with his new hair stile
 
#17
tropper66 said:
Markintime said:
tropper66 said:
Let be honist, after getting rid of the terrable 432 MK1 with the petrol engine, It became one of the best and most versitile vehicals in the history of the British Army, to upgrade it untill we have somthing much better sounds like a good idea
Funny really, in '73 in Sennelager we had Mk1 (petrol) 432s. '74-'80 in Osnabrueck we had Mk II s and in Munster 83-86 we had Mk 1s again!
I agree with Tropper the Mk1 was a ball bag and a dangerous one at that. It did, as pointed out, have BVs which were handy on a cold winter's night.
It was never cold in my 432, almost every time I dropped into the driving seat the battery burst into flames under my arrae, and the amount of cammo nets I burnt, used to drive with a fire extinguisher near to hand. One of the best was when OA had a petrol leak and on of the radio operators light a fag in the back, the CO was extreamly miffed with his new hair stile
I once had to drive/command a Mk II from Rheinzalen camp back to Osnabruck in sub-zero conditions. It seemed that, no matter what you put round your face your face would freeze when driving. Commanding was great because you could sit on the louvres and keep warm as toast. We had originally been told to stop every two hours but stopped half hourly to avoid the driver getting frost bite or worse. Made me realise just how effective the old-fashioned Kapok tank suits were, even if they were a nightmare to have a crap in!
 
#19
The next headline will be "Army bought skis, not suitable for Afghan" or "Navy's new submarine, no use in desert".

Must be a slow news day!
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#20
hobit said:
The next headline will be "Army bought skis, not suitable for Afghan" or "Navy's new submarine, no use in desert".

Must be a slow news day!
I'll have you know that HMS Astute is very adaptable. She deploys to Kabul in the New Year. But don't tell anyone, its secret.
 

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