MoD slammed yet again

#1
The Public Accounts Committee is the latest to slam the MoD's failures during Op Telic:

10.08AM, Thu Sep 16 2004

Defence chiefs have again been strongly criticised over the lack of equipment for British troops fighting in Iraq.

An influential committee of MPs described the kit shortages as "utterly unacceptable".

Their findings are particularly damning given that £550 million was spent on computer systems to track equipment.

The report goes as far as suggesting that troops' lives were put at risk by a shortage of protective equipment.

There was a lack of crucial nuclear, biological and chemical suits and tanks did not receive chemical weapon filters until long after the war had finished.

The MoD was particularly criticised for failing to "learn and act" on lessons from previous conflicts and for developing systems for the Army and Royal Navy that were incompatible.

The House of Commons Public Accounts Committee said that deployment of forces was made more difficult by political sensitivities surrounding efforts to secure a UN resolution prior to the conflict.

They also attacked the MoD for failing to prepare adequately for the aftermath of the war.

The MoD is now being urged to take swift action to fill the gaps exposed in the MPs report.

Committee chairman Edward Leigh said: "UK military operations in Iraq demonstrated the commitment, bravery and professionalism of our armed forces and those civilians and contractors who support them.

"In return, our service personnel deserve the proper tools to do the job and the best possible protection.

"My committee's report underscores once more that our forces faced greater risks as a result of shortages in equipment, particularly enhanced combat body armour and nuclear, biological and chemical detection and protection.

"This is utterly unacceptable and the MoD must take the necessary steps to identify gaps in provision and how these may best be addressed in time for any future operations.

"It is high time too, after this committee's repeated urging to address failings in logistics systems, that the MoD put in place an effective consignment tracking system so commanders on the ground can quickly locate important supplies."

http://www.itv.com/news/britain_1956907.html


How many times does this need to be pointed out before TCH resigns?
 
#2
The system wont change until the "Just in time" rather than "just in case" attitude is dropped by the supply system.

It would be all well and good to blame the RLC, but many of the top brass at HQ QMG is not of RLC capbadge.
 
#4
sent an email to my MP today reference this , asking her if TCH will be making a statement ..... or doing the decent thing and chucking himself off a building , also mentioned i was asking her as it appeared impossible to contact aforementioned w*nkpiece , and was he keeping his head down to prevent any further scrutiny of his inept performance.
finished by saying i looked forward to hearing her reply , but wasn't holding my breath on any sightings of aforementioned w*nkpiece.
 
#5
It makes me want to kill Hoon every time I remember guys in my battlegroup trying to squeeze into body-armour which didn't fit, wouldn't close and was utterly useless if they'd taken a round in the chest while that cnut was blithely assuring Parliament there was "no problem with supplies of essential equipment".

It's just as well Sadman Insane didn't have WMD, either. Like most units, we were short of NBC kit and what we had - filters being a prime example - was well beyond its sell-by date and might or might not have been effective if we'd been hit with Sarin or VX. :twisted:
 
#7
HTT,
A lot of the problem was that there weren't enough ballistic plates for the basic body-armour vests. The plate will - hopefully - stop a high-velocity round, but the vest won't on its own.
 

Avre

Old-Salt
#8
I dont understand why every man jack isnt issued body armour as part of his initial kit issue or issued it when you tip up at your new posting as part of the other niff naff and trivia you get from your sqms.
 
#9
AVRE,
It's the same basic problem as with everything else. Money. The beancounters don't want to shell out for an expensive item like bodyarmour for every man and woman. A senior officer once told me when i asked the same question that "soldiers would only lose them" if they were issued as part of the standard kit. Unbelievable. :twisted:
 
#10
"soldiers would only lose them"
Why not keep them in the armoury with the shooters then? Make it part of your weapon issue?

We zero our own personal weapons and draw the same one each time....why not have the jacket sized up to fit the individual, and issued along with your weapon each time?
 
#12
but did Nao and the defence committee look at the time line the govt expected the army to work to abreviated to save political embarassment.
 
#13
Story in the Sun today about coppers demonstating body armour found that a 9mm bullet went through the bugger and into the water butt that it was fitted onto! So they are still blo0dy gut-stoppers then!
 
#14
SKJOLD said:
The system wont change until the "Just in time" rather than "just in case" attitude is dropped by the supply system.

It would be all well and good to blame the RLC, but many of the top brass at HQ QMG is not of RLC capbadge.
'Just in Time' is fine if you have a manufacturing base geared up to produce what you want. Many large companies indeed use this method of production. Ford for example has a standing order of x sets of xyz to be delivered every 4 days to cover production of xxx NOT "Can you design a pair of boots which we may need at some time within 48 Hours. It does not work that way....

Problem is you cannot Turn on production of say Body Armour or Desert Camo at a moments notice and expect them to arrive overnight.

So with Military Items you need an eliment of 'Just in Case' A buffer stock of what used to be called 'Out of Theatre' items, held by selected units or stores (To some degree Stores are for Storeing - But should be made available when needed)

A fine balance between 'Just in Case' Storage and 'Just in Time' Manufacture and Supply is needed. More items such as Body Armour, Desert Camo & Boots ect need to be added to Unit G1098 scales to ensure 1st line units are ready for deployment.

Artic or Jungle Warfare are not high on the agenda at the moment, but the scaling of equipment for these areas of operation also needs to be maintained.

'Just in Case' or 'Just in Time'
You Decide......
 
#15
claymore said:
AVRE,
It's the same basic problem as with everything else. Money. The beancounters don't want to shell out for an expensive item like bodyarmour for every man and woman. A senior officer once told me when i asked the same question that "soldiers would only lose them" if they were issued as part of the standard kit. Unbelievable. :twisted:
Read the report - the MoD has bought 200,000 sets. That is, just under two each for everyone in the Army - but they don't know where they are. They've already spent more than it would take to give each soldier one and still those who needed it didn't have enough. Unbelievable. The supply system is a joke.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#16
claymore said:
A senior officer once told me when i asked the same question that "soldiers would only lose them" if they were issued as part of the standard kit. Unbelievable.
I don't think it's entirely 'unbelievable'. Soldiers wouldn't necessarily lose body armour, but I can imagine them 'forgetting' to deploy with it because it's a heavy pain in the arrse and it would take up a good deal of the kingly baggage allowance that the crabs give us. It isn't beyond the wit of man to arrange that CBA is moved into theatre with units so it can be issued there: that was what was meant to happen, but the budgetary situation we face means that there is virtually no margin for error. A friend of mine on Telic 1 had the same compo menu for six weeks, but at the same time no NBC consumables and no ammunition for his weapon for the first nine days after they crossed the border (he picked up an AK from a POW). On his way back down to Kuwait to fly home, he had to hand in his CBA and ammunition because there was a shortage: sure enough, his convoy of trucks was fired on and only the drivers had weapons.

We've been relatively lucky so far but it is easy to imagine a complete disaster occuring because of MOD scrimping, and you can be sure that Hoon/Blair/Brown will be looking around for someone else to blame.
 
#17
Whatever happened to personal responsibility ? If a soldier turns up without CBA in defiance of written orders to the contrary, then charge the little scrote. What "senior officers" really mean is "we can't be bothered to look after the men".

Whatever happened to the type of General who came down like a hammer on officers who failed to look after their men ? The sort who relieved unit commanders on the spot for not giving the troops a hot meal before an attack ? Too busy writing weasel words to excuse their lack of action I fear, and smarming up to politicians to make sure their pension gets larger and larger.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#18
One_of_the_strange said:
Whatever happened to the type of General who came down like a hammer on officers who failed to look after their men ? The sort who relieved unit commanders on the spot for not giving the troops a hot meal before an attack ? Too busy writing weasel words to excuse their lack of action I fear, and smarming up to politicians to make sure their pension gets larger and larger.

Employment tribunals more likely.
 
#19
Defence chiefs have again been strongly criticised over the lack of equipment for British troops fighting in Iraq. An influential committee of MPs described the kit shortages as "utterly unacceptable".
It's Blairs fault, if I was him, I would have said to the Americans, "Yea if you want us to come to Iraq with you then give us some new kit, cos we ani't got any and you can give us some money aswell so we can pay our troops out there a bit more"

Knowing the Americans they probley have a wharehouse somewhere with tons and tons of brand new kit they'll never use and they certenly have plenty of money.
 
#20
Got mine for Telic issed from Chillwell where the Stabs mount (and no, im not one!), they had loads of sets, got the Plates and all. They had loads of kit, we didnt sign for anything, they could have shipped that out and then resuped it with the newly made stuff easily
 

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