MoD language guide

enpointe

Old-Salt
I feel that workplace attempts to police speech have had a real chilling effect on relationships in the workplace. On the one hand I recognise the need to conform to legislation around harassment & bullying; that's not up for negotiation. On the other hand, what should be up for negotiation is the censoring of gendered speech or transposing one person's "lived experience" as an offender as a reason to speak on behalf of an entire group of people and change the speech of everybody else. The lack of negotiation or willingness to diverge from a trajectory comes across as very authoritarian and corrosive to any team, department, unit or organisation where that manifests itself.

Those who have the correct codes can control an organisation no matter their status. That's not right. It creates a barrier to team cohesion which in turn degrades moral & capability. Come conversations & bad thinks that ordinarily be done more openly and then cleansed by daylight by peers are now done away from scrutiny because of the threat and end up not being challenged or evolving at all.

BTW, all this is my lived experience so there is no data to go along with.
in otherwirds you are self entitled brat and get upset when you are called out on it
 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
So; accepting your concerns about the UK treatment setup for under-18s, and assuming that the UK followed the Swedes in a halt to puberty-blockers; would that address the bulk of your concerns about the treatment of gender dysphoria?
No, and neither do I think there should be a blanket halt puberty blockers. I think there should be a much more critical (aka scientific) approach to all the possible causes of why children are presenting with "GD", not because I question whether GD exists (I don't) but because the diagnostic processes have been questionable.

This is directly linked to how free clinicians and others feel to discuss other possible causes, which it is clear has been made substantially harder by censorious hard-line activism.

I did find a summary of the Dutch study, which also noted the large rise in people seeking treatment for gender dysphoria - but who also noted that the rate of "I really wish I hadn't" remained at the same low level, five years on (they also noted that the uptake rate of hormone treatment dropped over thirty years, from 90% to 60%). To my untrained eye, that would suggest it's awareness that is rising, and diagnosis improving, not people being bullied into it by woke activists... and it would be interesting to see whether the UK treatment statistics (if eventually sorted out) are similar to the Dutch statistics.

To save people some time, this is the key part of the abstract:
Results: 6,793 people (4,432 birth-assigned male, 2,361 birth-assigned female) visited our gender identity clinic from 1972 through 2015. The number of people assessed per year increased 20-fold from 34 in 1980 to 686 in 2015. The estimated prevalence in the Netherlands in 2015 was 1:3,800 for men (transwomen) and 1:5,200 for women (transmen). The percentage of people who started hormone treatment within 5 years after the 1st visit decreased over time, with almost 90% in 1980 to 65% in 2010. The percentage of people who underwent gonadectomy within 5 years after starting HT remained stable over time (74.7% of transwomen and 83.8% of transmen). Only 0.6% of transwomen and 0.3% of transmen who underwent gonadectomy were identified as experiencing regret.
Would it interest you to read one of the authors of that study describing how it is misused to support prescribing puberty blockers and why that is wrong? Here is an article that discusses him doing precisely that (GC feminist blog link because the original articles are in Dutch, and for obvious reasons you won't find this on the Mermaids, Stonewall or GIDS FAQs):


I'm not suggesting anything other than that we accept the reality that there are dissenting expert voices and listen to them, because the data available does not fit the activist line.
 
I think there should be a much more critical (aka scientific) approach to all the possible causes of why children are presenting with "GD", not because I question whether GD exists (I don't) but because the diagnostic processes have been questionable.
I do wonder about the old "process" cry: "Are they doing the right thing the wrong way, or the wrong thing the right way?"

If the UK statistics (comparing patient rates of uptake of hormone therapy, uptake of surgical reassignment, "regret" rates) matched the Dutch ones, more or less, it could be that the UK was doing "the right thing the wrong way". If they have greater "regret" rates, it's possible that the UK was just doing things "the wrong way".

I'm not suggesting anything other than that we accept the reality that there are dissenting expert voices and listen to them, because the data available does not fit the activist line.
Which is an entirely reasonable position. But unfortunately, is also one that is used by an excuse by those who use any dissent to support an absolutist position.

For instance; I accept that there are some queries around the detail of anthropogenic climate change, or vaccination policy. This is used by climate change/vaccine deniers to shout "You see?! It's a lie!", when in fact the overwhelming majority of evidence is that humans have affected the climate, and that vaccines work (and certainly aren't part of a plan to control us via 5G networks and chemtrails)

As a result, those who make a nuanced point about how "I don't agree with the slogan that transgender women are women" are often mistaken for those who refuse to accept the existence of gender dysphoria, nor that reassignment is a valid outcome. That's not necessarily because the LGBT activists are on a jihad, trying to burn the heretics and stamp out dissent... from their perspective, you look just the same as all the others (granted, there are also screechy overreactions on all sides, from people who don't do nuance).

An analogy. If you met someone who stated firmly that their position was "Troops Out of Northern Ireland!", would you assume that it was some Sinn Fein patsy, or Corbynite? Even if in conversation they explained that what they actually meant was that there needed to be a peaceful political solution such that soldiers did not need to be deployed on UK streets? And that there were dissenting expert voices around the best way to achieve such an end? Would you try to persuade them that no matter how reasonable or well-informed their intent, standing up and stating "Troops Out" was likely to see them mistaken for an apologist for terrorism?
 
Last edited:

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
I do wonder about the old "process" cry: "Are they doing the right thing the wrong way, or the wrong thing the right way?"

If the UK statistics (comparing patient rates of uptake of hormone therapy, uptake of surgical reassignment, "regret" rates) matched the Dutch ones, more or less, it could be that the UK was doing "the right thing the wrong way". If they have greater "regret" rates, it's possible that the UK was just doing things "the wrong way".


Which is an entirely reasonable position. But unfortunately, is also one that is used by an excuse by those who use any dissent to support an absolutist position.

For instance; I accept that there are some queries around the detail of anthropogenic climate change, or vaccination policy. This is used by climate change/vaccine deniers to shout "You see?! It's a lie!", when in fact the overwhelming majority of evidence is that humans have affected the climate, and that vaccines work (and certainly aren't part of a plan to control us via 5G networks and chemtrails)

As a result, those who make a nuanced point about how "I don't agree with the slogan that transgender women are women" are often mistaken for those who refuse to accept the existence of gender dysphoria, nor that reassignment is a valid outcome. That's not necessarily because the LGBT activists are on a jihad, trying to burn the heretics and stamp out dissent... from their perspective, you look just the same as all the others (granted, there are also screechy overreactions on all sides, from people who don't do nuance).

An analogy. If you met someone who stated firmly that their position was "Troops Out of Northern Ireland!", would you assume that it was some Sinn Fein patsy, or Corbynite? Even if in conversation they explained that what they actually meant was that there needed to be a peaceful political solution such that soldiers did not need to be deployed on UK streets? And that there were dissenting expert voices around the best way to achieve such an end? Would you try to persuade them that no matter how reasonable or well-informed their intent, standing up and stating "Troops Out" was likely to see them mistaken for an apologist for terrorism?
Just a general observation about the coarsening and infantilisation of public debate - or, rather, the death of same, we seem, collectively, to have lost the knack of discussion and debate, preferring, instead, to shout slogans and insults at each other - any sharp debate without mutual respect will tend to drive out subtlety and nuance and present complex issues in very stark terms.

I hasten to add that this is not a comment on the ongoing discussion in here, which I've found informative and illuminating and my personal thanks to you both for it.
 


 

Sarastro

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Fine by me.

How does "Stop, Army three times" translate into the modern lexicon?
You were in the Army three times? Make your mind up!
 
A wise ue of time and money? The next article is:

MOD's 'disastrous' lack of estate strategy wasting taxpayers' money, report finds​

The Ministry of Defence (MOD) is wasting huge amounts of taxpayers' money by mismanaging its multi-billion-pound property portfolio, a report by the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) has found.

With barracks, training areas and housing estates for troops, the MOD is one of the largest landowners in the UK with a diverse estate of some 240,000 hectares worth an estimated £36bn.

The PAC report calls the Ministry of Defence's approach to managing its land and buildings "disastrous", with 30% of its properties in an unacceptable condition.
Nightmare Tenants, Slum Landlords
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

TamH70

MIA
GET SOME!!!!!

Vietnam War veteran turned actor who got robbed of the job of the DI in Full Metal Jacket but got the job of door gunner in the chopper Walt!
 

BarcelonaAnalPark

LE
Book Reviewer
From old man Linehan in Dublin:


"Sometimes this fight seems hopeless. So much has already been taken away. The privacy, safety and dignity that came with single-sex spaces, are gone, even to the most vulnerable women. Women in prison, or in rape crisis centres, or shelters, can no longer be certain they are safe. The thrill of competing, the level playing field, of women's sports, gone, with cheating men in women's categories, stealing their medals, their records, their careers. Worst of all is the threat to our children. Dangerous, experimental treatments, that leave them infertile, depressed and in need of constant, painful correction. All happening in plain sight, with our politicians terrified of challenging the faithful.

Sound familiar? Ireland is once again offering up its women and children to a religion, a religion cooked up, not in the Vatican, the source of so much historic injustice, but in the halls of American universities and the endless show trials that pass for online discourse. The Magdalen Laundries may be gone, but the priests who ran them, and the nuns who collaborated, are still with us, using the familiar weapons of faith and shame.

So today I want to encourage you to do a single, simple thing. Take the anger you feel at all that has been done in secret so far, and use it, channel it, let it give you the hope and energy you need to fight this. Get angry. Get angry at the politician who allowed Self ID to pass in the dark, get angry at the schoolteacher grooming your child into this ideology, get angry at the press, looking the other way.

Angry women are terrifying. Ask any married man. I know because I used to be one. You possibly don't realise how much power is in that anger. But that's why there's not more men here. They're scared of you, because you're angry. That's why the media don't dare put a gender-critical feminist onscreen, because their anger would make every television in the country explode. You want to see fireworks? Have Colm O'Gorman tell Helen Joyce that transwomen are women, that Eddie Izzard is the same sex as her. Have him say it to her face. They wouldn't dare. They know he wouldn't leave the studio in one piece.

Now, some of you may be frightened of your anger. I understand, mine has got me into a lot of trouble. And the new priests can be pretty frightening, and their demands that you feel shame for standing up for your humanity can be convincing, echoed as they are by the faithful all over social media.

So if you ever find it faltering, or fading, in the face of opposition, you just have to ask yourself a few questions.

How many more women should be raped in prison? Not one more.

How many young girls should cut off their healthy breasts, or take drugs that destroy their sexual pleasure? Not one more.

How many women should be driven offline, have their livelihoods threatened by young misogynistic men with purple highlights in their hair? Not one more.

How many more bomb threats delivered to JK Rowling will we stand for? Not one more.

How many more women should lose a place on a podium, or an awards shortlist, taken by a crossdressing autogynophile? Not one more.

Don't give an inch. Don't give them an inch. Don't give up a single right, that was fought for a hundred years ago. It's not enough to resist every new outrage, we have to undo the outrages that have already been committed against you. If you see a unisex changing room, complain. If someone calls you cis, tell them "I find that word offensive". And if you see a man in a space that's meant for women, speak up, summon the furies, get that look in your eye that turns every man's blood turn to ice.

Because finally, it's your anger, that will win this fight. I get angry all the time, and it does nothing, because everyone just thinks I'm mad. But if every woman here gets angry, and encourages every woman they know to get angry too, then this absurd, incoherent, irrational, misogynistic, homophobic fad will wither and die, and not a moment too soon. Thank you."
 
"Chief People Officer", "Global Director of Talent" etc. Ugh. The titles are as ghastly as the holders thereof.
Recently, a 'talent engagement' person 'reached out' to me via the nonsense medium of LinkedIn. I quickly realised that he was a recruitment consultant who wanted to talk to me.
I had forgotten that I had a LInkedIn profile, I was going to delete it but it does provide me with entertainment, people who have 'He/ Him' etc as part of their post-nominals.
 
From old man Linehan in Dublin:


"Sometimes this fight seems hopeless. So much has already been taken away. The privacy, safety and dignity that came with single-sex spaces, are gone, even to the most vulnerable women. Women in prison, or in rape crisis centres, or shelters, can no longer be certain they are safe. The thrill of competing, the level playing field, of women's sports, gone, with cheating men in women's categories, stealing their medals, their records, their careers. Worst of all is the threat to our children. Dangerous, experimental treatments, that leave them infertile, depressed and in need of constant, painful correction. All happening in plain sight, with our politicians terrified of challenging the faithful.

Sound familiar? Ireland is once again offering up its women and children to a religion, a religion cooked up, not in the Vatican, the source of so much historic injustice, but in the halls of American universities and the endless show trials that pass for online discourse. The Magdalen Laundries may be gone, but the priests who ran them, and the nuns who collaborated, are still with us, using the familiar weapons of faith and shame.

So today I want to encourage you to do a single, simple thing. Take the anger you feel at all that has been done in secret so far, and use it, channel it, let it give you the hope and energy you need to fight this. Get angry. Get angry at the politician who allowed Self ID to pass in the dark, get angry at the schoolteacher grooming your child into this ideology, get angry at the press, looking the other way.

Angry women are terrifying. Ask any married man. I know because I used to be one. You possibly don't realise how much power is in that anger. But that's why there's not more men here. They're scared of you, because you're angry. That's why the media don't dare put a gender-critical feminist onscreen, because their anger would make every television in the country explode. You want to see fireworks? Have Colm O'Gorman tell Helen Joyce that transwomen are women, that Eddie Izzard is the same sex as her. Have him say it to her face. They wouldn't dare. They know he wouldn't leave the studio in one piece.

Now, some of you may be frightened of your anger. I understand, mine has got me into a lot of trouble. And the new priests can be pretty frightening, and their demands that you feel shame for standing up for your humanity can be convincing, echoed as they are by the faithful all over social media.

So if you ever find it faltering, or fading, in the face of opposition, you just have to ask yourself a few questions.

How many more women should be raped in prison? Not one more.

How many young girls should cut off their healthy breasts, or take drugs that destroy their sexual pleasure? Not one more.

How many women should be driven offline, have their livelihoods threatened by young misogynistic men with purple highlights in their hair? Not one more.

How many more bomb threats delivered to JK Rowling will we stand for? Not one more.

How many more women should lose a place on a podium, or an awards shortlist, taken by a crossdressing autogynophile? Not one more.

Don't give an inch. Don't give them an inch. Don't give up a single right, that was fought for a hundred years ago. It's not enough to resist every new outrage, we have to undo the outrages that have already been committed against you. If you see a unisex changing room, complain. If someone calls you cis, tell them "I find that word offensive". And if you see a man in a space that's meant for women, speak up, summon the furies, get that look in your eye that turns every man's blood turn to ice.

Because finally, it's your anger, that will win this fight. I get angry all the time, and it does nothing, because everyone just thinks I'm mad. But if every woman here gets angry, and encourages every woman they know to get angry too, then this absurd, incoherent, irrational, misogynistic, homophobic fad will wither and die, and not a moment too soon. Thank you."
Thank Christ I'm a Lutheran
 
From old man Linehan in Dublin:


"Sometimes this fight seems hopeless. So much has already been taken away. The privacy, safety and dignity that came with single-sex spaces, are gone, even to the most vulnerable women. Women in prison, or in rape crisis centres, or shelters, can no longer be certain they are safe. The thrill of competing, the level playing field, of women's sports, gone, with cheating men in women's categories, stealing their medals, their records, their careers. Worst of all is the threat to our children. Dangerous, experimental treatments, that leave them infertile, depressed and in need of constant, painful correction. All happening in plain sight, with our politicians terrified of challenging the faithful.

Sound familiar? Ireland is once again offering up its women and children to a religion, a religion cooked up, not in the Vatican, the source of so much historic injustice, but in the halls of American universities and the endless show trials that pass for online discourse. The Magdalen Laundries may be gone, but the priests who ran them, and the nuns who collaborated, are still with us, using the familiar weapons of faith and shame.

So today I want to encourage you to do a single, simple thing. Take the anger you feel at all that has been done in secret so far, and use it, channel it, let it give you the hope and energy you need to fight this. Get angry. Get angry at the politician who allowed Self ID to pass in the dark, get angry at the schoolteacher grooming your child into this ideology, get angry at the press, looking the other way.

Angry women are terrifying. Ask any married man. I know because I used to be one. You possibly don't realise how much power is in that anger. But that's why there's not more men here. They're scared of you, because you're angry. That's why the media don't dare put a gender-critical feminist onscreen, because their anger would make every television in the country explode. You want to see fireworks? Have Colm O'Gorman tell Helen Joyce that transwomen are women, that Eddie Izzard is the same sex as her. Have him say it to her face. They wouldn't dare. They know he wouldn't leave the studio in one piece.

Now, some of you may be frightened of your anger. I understand, mine has got me into a lot of trouble. And the new priests can be pretty frightening, and their demands that you feel shame for standing up for your humanity can be convincing, echoed as they are by the faithful all over social media.

So if you ever find it faltering, or fading, in the face of opposition, you just have to ask yourself a few questions.

How many more women should be raped in prison? Not one more.

How many young girls should cut off their healthy breasts, or take drugs that destroy their sexual pleasure? Not one more.

How many women should be driven offline, have their livelihoods threatened by young misogynistic men with purple highlights in their hair? Not one more.

How many more bomb threats delivered to JK Rowling will we stand for? Not one more.

How many more women should lose a place on a podium, or an awards shortlist, taken by a crossdressing autogynophile? Not one more.

Don't give an inch. Don't give them an inch. Don't give up a single right, that was fought for a hundred years ago. It's not enough to resist every new outrage, we have to undo the outrages that have already been committed against you. If you see a unisex changing room, complain. If someone calls you cis, tell them "I find that word offensive". And if you see a man in a space that's meant for women, speak up, summon the furies, get that look in your eye that turns every man's blood turn to ice.

Because finally, it's your anger, that will win this fight. I get angry all the time, and it does nothing, because everyone just thinks I'm mad. But if every woman here gets angry, and encourages every woman they know to get angry too, then this absurd, incoherent, irrational, misogynistic, homophobic fad will wither and die, and not a moment too soon. Thank you."
@BarcelonaAnalPark is that you? Very deep that mate..
 

Niamac

GCM
Just a general observation about the coarsening and infantilisation of public debate - or, rather, the death of same, we seem, collectively, to have lost the knack of discussion and debate, preferring, instead, to shout slogans and insults at each other - any sharp debate without mutual respect will tend to drive out subtlety and nuance and present complex issues in very stark terms.
A few points;

First; he who wins the debate is not always right so confrontational debate is often a poor way to get to the truth. It can be entertaining but that's all.

Second; Artificial Intelligence in the form of the algorithms used by social media sites are driving those who use them and/or believe them, to more extreme sites and further into ever smaller filter bubbles. So the AI machine is controlling and dividing the population for the sake of more 'clicks' which the site owner can use to attract advertising. It's a dangerous addiction.

Third; the use of nicknames to hide identity has coarsened the exchanges. Again the social media site owners are keen to raise controversy as it means 'clicks'.
 

Latest Threads

Top