MoD golden hello failing to attract nurses into forces

#21
My 17 yr old Daughter is thinking about QA as a Career after her A Levels, she would like to be a Mental Health Nurse. If she join's will she be paid while doing the 3 yr nurse's training?

At which Uni is the training at :?:

Any advice would be most appreciated.
 
#22
goober said:
My 17 yr old Daughter is thinking about QA as a Career after her A Levels, she would like to be a Mental Health Nurse. If she join's will she be paid while doing the 3 yr nurse's training?

At which Uni is the training at :?:

Any advice would be most appreciated.
University of Central England in Birmingham, although the placements can be a bit more widespread. One in Germany is not beyond question.
 
#23
goober said:
My 17 yr old Daughter is thinking about QA as a Career after her A Levels, she would like to be a Mental Health Nurse. If she join's will she be paid while doing the 3 yr nurse's training?

At which Uni is the training at :?:

Any advice would be most appreciated.
Hi

Try the following Link to the QARANC

But in short yes you do basic training join other students & get paid as a Pte soldier until trained then promoted to Cpl, I believe the training is in Birmingham.
 
#24
Pox_Dr said:
Neuroleptic said:
.... I'm a little sceptical that many TA nurses, other than H and I Grades (rare as hens' teeth) and the occasional manager, are that much better off on strawberry mivvi wages.

H & I Grades, slightly out of date. My clinic has 7 band 7s & 4 band 8s. All of which are reasonably commonplace.
Then that's one high powered clinic. The two trusts in my local area have about three I Grades between them. And most of the G Grades have ended up in Band 6. Lotsa unhappy hectors. OK, I'm a fossil who hasn't got to grips with the AFC. My startlingly inept employer hasn't even told us what our new bandings are yet, let alone started migrating our pay into the new system. Can you guess who I work for, boys and girls?
 
#25
abacus said:
Neuroleptic said:
I'm a little sceptical that many TA nurses, other than H and I Grades (rare as hens' teeth) and the occasional manager, are that much better off on strawberry mivvi wages.
On a straightforward comparison basic wage v. basic wage I am sure you are correct. However, the civvy (I love strawberry mivvy BTW :D) nurse has freedom to bank during her/his offduty periods (quite a lot of those in a 37.5 hour basic week) and for top-up purposes their additional TA Pay would be taken into account.

Authority to offer my views in this forum: Mrs Abacus is a top G Grade. Most of our social circle are civvy or serving nursing staff (both TA and Reg) including a slack handful of Doctors. Out of uniform I can't tell the bl00dy difference between who are Officers and who aren't and in uniform I'm afraid I have the TA habit of judging everyone by what they contribute rather than whether I need to call them Sir, Ma'am, mate or darling. Mind you, in another Retention Master Stroke, I wonder if the new uniform(s?) will make it easier to tell whether I've made one of my many faux pas or not.

24 Hours since I posted in this thread and I must confess that I would have edited my original if it hadn't been quoted several times already. My tone was strong - arguably too strong - but the message is important. As an organisation (i.e. the M.O.D.) we CANNOT compete with civilian wages. It's not just nurses - see any number of Chefs and Pet Ops who are earning more in Iraq as civvy contractors than the BG Comds they used to work for. However, what we can offer where the civvy firms struggle is real IIP standards of care and concern; no-one joined the army for money so we have a start point which is not common with our civvy competitors. But we need to start by burying the blue-blood snobbery that simply cannot co-exist in a world which requires equity of treatment for equity of effort and ability. If someone is good enough to be an Officer: encourage them, don't block them. And I would argue that it is far, far better to promote from within than seek to replace from without. Or am I being too much of a civvy again?
Interesting point about the calculation of pay Abacus. I hadn't realised (possibly because I didn't check carefully enough) that (a) TA pay and (b) overtime, got taken into consideration. Do you have a link to the regs online as the stuff I've got from my Unit is pants?

Not sure it makes a huge difference though. The more senior you get, in my experience, the less overtime there is. A Captain with middling seniority is (I think-someone tell me if I'm wrong) going to be earning more than a top Band 7 nurse, even with things like COL allowances and e.g. psych lead thrown in. The only people likely to benefit from this are nurse consultants, managers and a few workaholics who never go to TA because they're doing an extra shift... The mobilised reservist sent somewhere hilly or sandy also gets extra pay for that.

If someone knows different though, I stand ready to be corrected.
 
#27
Karabiner said:
The shortfall figure evidently does not include the large number of nurses we have in trg in the Army. This is frequently the case when the manning stats are quoted, if current trends continue we are heading for manning balance for soldier nurses by 2008. The real problem is a lack of specialist qualified nurses, especially ITU & A&E. The golden hello is nowhere near enough to attract them and we are seeking to review it.

My other point relates to what are being called 'blue blooded' officers, we are the QARANC not the flaming Cavalry for ferks sake. I have to say that the reference to blue blood is utter b''lox. Sounds like someone failed to get a commission and is blaming external factors, maybe they should look closer to home.

Finally, where is this ivory tour people constantly refer to, I know of a number of hard working HQs whose staff are trying to improve the lot of our people...stop whining and contribute something constructive.
Surely the £8000 would be better spent on sending the already serving nurse on the A&E or ITU course, thus aiding retention?
 
#28
Karabiner said:
Pox_Dr you are obviously a bitter individual, I work in one of those HQs and can tell you categorically that me and my staff are bending over backwards to try to improve things, trouble is by doing that we expose ourselves to getting shafted by those who spend more time complaining than doing something about it. I got a lot of this in my last job as well, trouble is individuals who blame everyone and everything else but never see the people still working ridiculously long hours to help an ungrateful and ill-informed group of people.
Bitter No

Glad to be out yes, my only regret is the lack of contact with old mates, missing out on mess life & not doing it sooner.

Fed up of the party line, yes, being spouted now YES.

Attempt to do something about it YES, constantly for the last 10 years of my career, result nurses in my trade spec constantly deployed, while recruitment is seen as low priority despite being told that within the next 2 years the speciality will be at 50% strength. Guess what I was wrong 2 retirements in the next 6 months meaning 50% strength in less than 18 months. Ridiculously long hours, welcome to the services, the only difference between you & me now is I get toil forced on me & my junior staff get over time.
 
#29
Neuroleptic said:
Filbert, can you please find out where the TA nurses who get paid more in their civvy jobs than when called up and on Ops work? I want to go and apply for a job!.
I work for a nursing agency as a HCA (I have no formal training, just experience from being an RMA) - I can earn £75.60 for a weekday, upto £87.60 for a weekend nightshift.

The other day I was working with a lad from another agency who is a HCA and he was getting £120 for a normal day shift! At my place agency nurses are on between £16 - £22 an hour.

So there is money to be made.
 
#30
Neuroleptic said:
Interesting point about the calculation of pay Abacus. I hadn't realised (possibly because I didn't check carefully enough) that (a) TA pay and (b) overtime, got taken into consideration. Do you have a link to the regs online as the stuff I've got from my Unit is pants?
The only online links I can find relate to the pre-impact-of-reality aspirations of our paymasters. The real-life individuals I could quote are all rather specific (and identifiable). If you are about to be mobilised though, the Ops Room at Chilwell are - naturally enough - subject matter experts and even if they don't know, they will know for sure who does.

Neuroleptic said:
Surely the £8000 would be better spent on sending the already serving nurse on the A&E or ITU course, thus aiding retention?
And recruitment. I hope that hasn't crossed into the realms of the dangerously common-sensical though.

Karabiner said:
My other point relates to what are being called 'blue blooded' officers, we are the QARANC not the flaming Cavalry for ferks sake.
My point exactly. Therefore, why can't we Commission your appropriately qualified Nurses? Furthermore, we insist that our Commissioning policy is correct and rational then we are telling the World that the NHS trains it's nurses far more effectively in CLM than the Army does. I don't believe that is the case at all.

I am not for one minute suggesting that everyone should be Commissioned, in point of fact I suspect that we are Commissioning (far) too many straight from civvy street who I suspect would be able to contribute more as nursing Soldiers instead. But we have to stop telling serving soldiers that it is not even worth trying or we will continue to feed the resentment that is growing in their ranks amongst the disaffected few who would be perfectly suited to accept the responsibilities of an Officer, able to conduct themselves accordingly and who genuinely wish to do so. The fact that they signed on as a soldier on day 1 should be a plus point, not a negative.

Karabiner said:
Sounds like someone failed to get a commission and is blaming external factors, maybe they should look closer to home.
Not the rationale from this C/S. In point of fact all the offline discussion I have had on this subject has been with other Officers. Although, being in the Officer recruitment, selection and training world I am inclined to agree that there are a number out there who would do just as you have suggested.

Edited to remove the bits where I was being a tw4t/amend the bits where I should have been more conciliatory.
 
#31
goober said:
My 17 yr old Daughter is thinking about QA as a Career after her A Levels, she would like to be a Mental Health Nurse. If she join's will she be paid while doing the 3 yr nurse's training?

At which Uni is the training at :?:

Any advice would be most appreciated.
I dont think that the Army trains or recruits mental health nurses anymore, I could be wrong of course, give the QA recruiting team a call. PM me if you want the number.
 
#32
The point is boys and girls is that the NHS is failing to attract nurses, never mind the army. The regular army is just seeing the knock on effects and with bad publicity from the gutter press about Iraq, Afghanistan etc, the job just ain't attractive anymore. Do you what to boil your butt off in a tent and run the risk of getting blown up, or go to work and get you lights punched out by some boozed up chav in A&E in civi street? Nursing just isn't attractive anymore.
 
#34
fat_lad said:
The point is boys and girls is that the NHS is failing to attract nurses, never mind the army...... Nursing just isn't attractive anymore.

There is actually a surplus of nurses now i.e. more nurses than posts within the NHS. With the average student completing training taking approx 6-9/12 to find their first post - Part but not all of the reason is overseas nurse recruiting policies & NHS Trusts financial mess.

For every post I advertise I receive at least 2 internal, 5-6 external & 50 plus overseas application’s all of which under the NHS PC polices have to have a fair crack at the whip.
 
#36
I've been reading a lot here about the commissioning policy ror the QAs here. What is the actual official line? From what I've heard in my short time with the QAs, the chances of commissioning from the ranks are slim, whereas if you apply from civvy street with 2 yrs post reg, you're straight on to RCB with promotion to lieutenant, with a captain rank after 6 yrs post reg. Why is this not the case from the ranks? From what I've been told, the most difficult part of the process as a Non-commissioned rank is actually getting on to the RCB in the first place, which is pretty much guaranteed as a 2yr post-reg civvy.
 
#37
Filbert Fox said:
goober said:
My 17 yr old Daughter is thinking about QA as a Career after her A Levels, she would like to be a Mental Health Nurse. If she join's will she be paid while doing the 3 yr nurse's training?

At which Uni is the training at :?:

Any advice would be most appreciated.
I dont think that the Army trains or recruits mental health nurses anymore, I could be wrong of course, give the QA recruiting team a call. PM me if you want the number.
They do. I have recently had contact with both Army (and other service) MH student nurses and their Tutors.
 
#38
Just confirmed with QA recruiting that they are recruiting both Adult and Mental health, so get your daughter signed up!!
 

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