MoD cuts put troops’ lives at risk

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by msr, May 30, 2009.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. msr

    msr LE

    A total of five programmes are to be cancelled, cut back or postponed. They range from Nimrod surveillance jets to radio eavesdropping equipment and pilotless drones able to spy on the Taliban and fire missiles at them.

    Ouch! Soothsayer, Reaper, Nimrod. I thought these were integral to the fight in Afghanistan, not nice-to-haves.

    Shows how broke defence actually is...

  2. I wonder how long it will take Jim30 to jump in and tell us it's not the MoD's fault... :roll:
  3. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    Soothsayer was a vastly mismanaged white elephant. The idea was simple and good but by the time Lockheed Martin had kicked it around for 3 years without resolving simple engineering tasks it was never going to have legs.

    Look on the bright side, there are 30+ Supacat 6 wheelers going begging for someone now.
  4. I'm not going to defend it - The reason these cuts are occurring is because No10 is refusing to fund Defence to the level we need to do the jobs we're being asked to do.

    The way the cuts were decided was through a very long (roughly a year) series of programme reviews and DECs offering up what they thought could go. This was then staffed through the system, and despite strong defence from areas, it was felt that to solve our funding nightmare these were the projects that would have to give.

    While not wishing to accuse a Minister of the crown of lying, I would suggest his argument that we don't have a funding crisis is perhaps slightly innacurate. We have an enormous funding crisis, we've had to cut billions out of the short term plan, and we're starting PR10 and doing it all over again. The only end to this nightmare will be an SDR which either cuts tasks or cuts a major project - until we can get all three services to actually step back and remove a capability from service, and thus save money, we're going to keep on making half assed decisions built around saving a bit of money here and there, while ignoring the elephants in the room in the form of the top 20 projects.

    The alternative is we accept that by reprofiling the money in Yr1-10 and shifting it to the right, we can somehow 'smooth the pattern' and try to ensure that we don't have too many shocks to the system to upset this.

    The problem boils down to the procurement budget having X in the funding line, where X is signficiantly smaller than Y, where Y is the amount of kit we want to buy, or have programmed in to buy. Z is out there waiting to cause problems, when Z is the UOR to core issue that will be lurking for when we pull out of HERRICK. Bottom line is that we need either a massive injection of cash, or a massive reduction in tasks or procurement. We simply cannot go on living hand to mouth, with endless PRs, while trying to fight 2 wars and regenerate our forces.
  5. I don't think that is the end of the cuts, either. We are broke.

  6. No suprise there how long will it be before they starting rationing ammo
  7. Well, if we bin the Nimrod MRA4, we may as well bin the Trident replacement because it sure as hell isn't credible without MPA protection.
  8. Well if Jim30 cannot do it, I know this guy has form:

    "Only days before Hutton’s decision, Quentin Davies, the defence equipment minister, had insisted in a speech that claims of a multi-billion-pound “funding gap” paralysing defence procurement were wrong."

    He is lying in the same way as he described the use of Snatch Landrovers as being a preference for commanders on the ground in November 2008, causing a political storm. He should have resigned then, the man isnt fit for ministerial office.

    Quentin Davies is a lying scheming toad.
  9. msr

    msr LE

    You sir have the understatement of the week award!

  10. The Times has slightly updated the story and is a bit clearer on what it meant with the Nimrod, namely that 3 of the MRA4s are to be cut (reducing the order to a grand total of 9 airframes instead of the 21 initially deemed necessary).

    The first version was trying to say this, but seemed to get confused about the number of MR2s in service - perhaps confusing the R1 fleet (3 aircraft) with the MR2, and thus thinking that losing three MRA4s meant no more Nimrods.
  11. Whoever, whatever type of political party takes power in 2010 after the next general election ANY soldier at the SHARP end will have the usual 5 rounds in his mag.

    The choice WILL be

    NHS or bullets.

    Immigration or MOD

    sacred cow (chavs) untouchable or more bullits for the soldiers in afgoonistan.

    Navy and RAF will be closed.

  12. The bigger herd of white elephants is the MoD's constant refusal to do anything about the criminal waste of money arising from these, and other, projects.

    Year after year they mount a campaign of self-protection and file shredding after, literally, dozens of independent audit reports highlighting this waste.

    The £1.5Bn mentioned is just peanuts compared to this. The projects selected for cuts are probably notable for the fact long serving officers (Service and CS) have retired, so only now can their decisions be reversed without too much embarrassment.

    Davies is the same as the rest. Complete and utter fools.
  13. Soothsayer has been spiraling out of control for some time, it's just a pity someone hadn't put a stop to it earlier and reinvested the money into a suitable replacement for the kit currently in theatre. :roll:
  14. "The bigger herd of white elephants is the MoD's constant refusal to do anything about the criminal waste of money arising from these, and other, projects."

    I'll deflect that slightly - pretty much everything gets looked at for cutting, and I know plenty of frustrated SO1s and SO2s who would love to see some projects cut. The problem lies in single service politics, and senior officers more concerned about bringing pets into service than truly thinking purple. As soon as cuts are mentioned, our much vaunted jointness goes, to be replaced by tribalism and counter briefing.

    One reason why its so difficult to do things is the well intentioned staff officers who leak options papers and then make it politically suicidal to do the option as the media is up in arms. The fact that it may have been a good option, or that it made sense, or that it would save enough money to protect dozens of other projects is irrelevant. Someone felt their capbadge / regiment / squadron / station was threatened and put their interests first. Laudable but ultimately self defeating.
  15. Funnily enough, it won't be the ammo that is rationed, IMHO. Ammunition is a long lead item; it has to be ordered, and paid for, well in advance.

    It will be the oil price that causes our problem later this year. Prices are already rising (>$60/bbl) which is feeding straight into petrol prices (already up to 97-99p/l at supermarkets and rising).