MOD 'Consultants' on Nearly £4k per Day!

#1
You really couldn't make this up.

MoD consultants make £5.5m from budget cuts - Telegraph

I'm particularly pleased that some have them have qualified for 'additional success fees' twice on top of their standard rates of criminal over-charging. I wonder what their definition of 'success' is?

Shadow defence secretary Jim Murphy said consultants were earning more in a week than soldiers took home in a year.​
He said: "It seems truly shocking that the MoD is paying management consultants more in a week than many of our squaddies earn in a year. The new Defence Secretary has to sort this out.
He's not wrong there.
 
#3
You only get what you pay for.
Exactly, I'd rather we paid for someone competent, because let's face it, none of the useless cnuts with red tabs on their collars have been of any use in the last decade. I just hope that their recommendations actually get acted on, but I have my doubts......
 
#4
Shall I get the keys? We know these fat, greasy, smug bastards earn this much and continue to whittle away at everything we need in the forces to save money. They don't care what happens to anyone else but themselves. As long as they get their enormous paycheck at the end of the week they're happy, what does it matter if we don't have any ships, planes or soldiers, not as if there's a war going on or anything.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#5
There are two things here, the consultant and teh consultant's fee.

Consultants, if they work for themselves, more often known as Contractors can easily earn up to 1000 gbp a day, some may get as much as double that. They often don't work all year around as they have short term contracts to cover off issues so once the work (and pay) is finished, they have to eat into their savings whilst looking for another job, in a good market this can take months, in a recession, years.

Consultants, if they work for big firms like EY, PwC, Accenture will earn a fraction, they'll get a salary much like any other very smart, highly trained, high performing and low drag office worker but the firm will charge between 300 and easily up to 1500 gbp per hour for them. The consultant will not get 300 to 1500, they just get their salary.

Either way, quality is not expensive, quality is its own value.
 
#6
What are they actually consulting?

Because most Sailors, Marines, Soldiers and Airmen can inform the MoD of where we can, could and should save money.
 
#7
Exactly, I'd rather we paid for someone competent, because let's face it, none of the useless cnuts with red tabs on their collars have been of any use in the last decade. I just hope that their recommendations actually get acted on, but I have my doubts......
Agreed, the real scandal is that our high command is too incompetent to do the job without consultants.
 
#8
What are they actually consulting?

Because most Sailors, Marines, Soldiers and Airmen can inform the MoD of where we can, could and should save money.
Now this sort of practical and revolutionary thinking will get you into trouble. Suppose the idea spread to the police and NHS for example. No. The bureaucrats and lawyers will get you first.
 
#9
What are they actually consulting?

Because most Sailors, Marines, Soldiers and Airmen can inform the MoD of where we can, could and should save money.
You mean like the 18 yr old Junior Rates that are convinced the answers to all the MOD's financial problems is to double their wages and sack all MOD CS staff?
 
#10
What are they actually consulting?

Because most Sailors, Marines, Soldiers and Airmen can inform the MoD of where we can, could and should save money.
They could save a bunch and just read ARRSE.
 
#11
You mean like the 18 yr old Junior Rates that are convinced the answers to all the MOD's financial problems is to double their wages and sack all MOD CS staff?
I didn't say implement the ideas across the board did I?

Problem we have in this country (as a whole) is we tend to beleive an outsider with a breif case MUST know more than the oik on the shopfloor... and at £4k a day he is listened to.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#12
contractor is a grown up term for temp

consultant is a grown up term for contractor, with the added value of either taking some delivery risk (e.g., if the Mk7 is not bullet proof at 200m to 7.62 short you can sue us for 10x our fee). This sort of contract makes it very attractive to folk that want to cover their arrse.

The other model consultants advertise is their joined-up-ness. This is actually extremely powerful. A consultancy can do this by having a consultant or team in the client firm at all levels. For the army this would mean, consultants in a pl on Herrick, in a FOB somewhere, at Baston, with the mentoring teams, with the build up training team, at MOD HQ, and a few places inbetween. The consultants would basically act as a clear-easily managed-anonymous-information-pathway where the honest feedback of the tom to the junior consultant in the field would be passed to the senior consultant sitting outside the CGS's office in an instant.

As a senior consultant I have guys working for me at projects at client site who tell me what does and doesn't work and I pass that directly to my regional or global boss who informs the CEO, from clerk to ceo in three conversations. obviously filtering that and refining the message and listening to other feeds but it's how it works. CEO's have clever ideas like "I want to buy a new XYZ" and the senior consultant can ask his guys "the ceo wants to buya new xyz, do you think your area can take the impact of work, can it sustain production whilst adopting the new xyz?" and based on feedback, the senior consultant can tell the ceo "no, not for a couple of years, you'll waste 100m(illion) doing it". So that brief conversation saves 100m but you've got to have consultants in the business to do it, and they cost 1000s per day. It's about using them correctly and listening.

You see that programme "back to the floor" where the ceo pretends to be a new clerk and gets all the gossip and then at the end of the week reveals who he is. If you have consultants, you'll never need to worry about that. If you don't, you do.
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#13
Now this sort of practical and revolutionary thinking will get you into trouble. Suppose the idea spread to the police and NHS for example. No. The bureaucrats and lawyers will get you first.
Next thing we know is that he'll be accusing some former senior officers (and some slightly below them) of easing the way for 'consultancies' into the MoD on the back of a promise of employment as a 'consultant' for themselves after they collect their gratuity. Whatever next?
 
#15
Agreed, the real scandal is that our high command is too incompetent to do the job without consultants.
Too right. In my humble opinion, it's a symptom of our ludicrous system when we compulsorily retire our deep specialists at 40 years of age. We jettison all the experience and then wonder why we lack continuity.

"Hmmm.... Warrant Officer Class 1 you say, with experience of warfighting operations, teaching and mentoring, managing personnel, understands the business inside and out etc? Nah bin him, he's no use to us unless he holds a commission in which case we can employ him till 55".

If anyone wants to pay me £1000 a day, fill yer boots.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Here's the nub of it from the Telegraph article.

[Defence minister Peter Luff] said: "Alix Partners were appointed on November 15 2010 to support the Ministry of Defence to renegotiate contracts in order to deliver savings as a result of decisions taken in the strategic defence and security review. "The MoD did not have the highly specialised skills required to undertake this work in the timescales".
The English translation of this is:

1) We originally had a project costed at £1 Billion.
2) As a result of the SDSR we are only going to get half of the shiny toys we wanted, but we are still going to be charged £800 million for it.
3) Alix Partners is trying to negotiate the contract down to £700 million.

The Alix Partners Website can be found at: AlixPartners > Home

Alix Partners among other things are forensic accountants - they are going through the MOD contracts line by line and identifying where suppliers are contractually obliged to reduce their prices. Alternatively, they are strong arming the suppliers to give 'voluntary' reduction on the grounds that if they don't it will affect future business.

This consulting team are lawyers and accountants - they are from all accounts delivering savings. The civil service is stuffed with lawyers and accountants. One might rightly ask why the hell the government can't find competent people from within its own resources to deliver the same savings?

Wordsmith
 
#17
This consulting team are lawyers and accountants - they are from all accounts delivering savings. The civil service is stuffed with lawyers and accountants. One might rightly ask why the hell the government can't find competent people from within its own resources to deliver the same savings?
It's staggering. We also have management accountants and lawyers in the army. Heaven forbid we should use them.
 
#18
This consulting team are lawyers and accountants - they are from all accounts delivering savings. The civil service is stuffed with lawyers and accountants. One might rightly ask why the hell the government can't find competent people from within its own resources to deliver the same savings?

Wordsmith
Because in order to attract them to work at the MOD they would have to paid a wage that will appeal to them and then the Telegraph and the Mail will run stories about how Civil Servants are being paid £100k a year and Pte Snodgrass risking life and limb as the chief chip chopper in Bastion cookhouse isn't.
 
#19
More importantly if hold staff who can't deliver the same savings... why are we still employing htem?

That is a saving right there.

£4,000 a day, and i've just provided a 'consultancy finding' in approx 5 mins of work. Send my £40 +/- to the RBL.
 
#20
I'll declare an interest. I'm a consultant - not currently working in MOD but I have done in the past.

The OP mentioned a couple of points which I'll address first - the day rate of more than £4k, and the success fee. In my experience, there are very, very few consultants or contractors earning over £2k in public sector consulting (certainty in the larger mainstream consulting organisations like PWC, KPMG, PA, Deloitte or EY). Since the Cabinet Office MOU negotiations in late 2010/early 2011 rates have significantly reduced. The average daily rate is now around £1100 per day (depending on the grade mix of the team. As a previous poster pointed out, the individual consultants make a small proportion of that daily rate.

There is no argument that £1100 is still a lot of money. However, I do believe that clients like the MOD do, by and large, get full value for that money, provided consultants are used in the right way, for the right things. For example, govt departments buy large projects infrequently. Therefore they don't have the expertise in house to go through the process (which is ludicrously and unnecessarily complex), and if they didn't buy in advice they'd make an even bigger mess of it. Keeping skilled specialist resources like that in house is a) inefficient, as you probably only use them every 10 years or so, at which point their skills have atrophied; and b) economically difficult, as once you've given them the skills and experience they are likely to bugger off to work for a private sector firm who will pay them more than you can afford..

Another thing to consider is that, by bringing someone else in, you can hold them to account for successfully delivering. Increasingly we are seeing less work on a Time and Materials basis, and much more Fixed Price or contingent fee. Contingent Fee (or bonus payment) is a great idea - it means if I screw something up or am late, you either don't pay me, or you pay me less. The counter to that downside risk is that if I deliver well (good quality, early etc), then there is a bonus payment. Hence the guys on £4k a day getting a bonus. Typically that bonus is a very small percentage of the benefit that the client has experienced (e.g. in cost saving terms). The whole idea of contingent fee is to get the supplier absolutely committed to delivering the very best outcome for the client.

Consulting doesn't always work. There are bad individuals, poor companies and bad practice. Many of these have given the industry a bad reputation - the watch stealing line is a very old one, and certainly deserved by some. Lots of these firms (or individual contractors) did pretty well out of Blair/Brown and the years of plenty. In my experience, the biggest issue is the way consulting is bought and managed (a nice way of saying its the client's fault...). Examples include: buying consultants to fix short term, BAU problems; bringing in consultants when you have no idea what it is you are trying to achieve, then being surprised when the outcome involves, you guessed it, more consulting; and finally, bringing in consultants to work alongside the sick, lame and lazy in the client organisation to deliver some time-critical programme....

Anyway, as I said, I'm biased....
 

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