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MOD Civil Servants

#1
WTF is going on with MOD Civil Servants?

When British Forces were something to be reckoned with, Civil Servants were clerks, drivers and, in senior terms, recorders of meeting minutes. They knew their place - to support the Armed Forces.

Nowadays they regard themselves as part of British Forces, obviously without the operational committments and responsibilities. We have this woman Ursula Brennan (PUS (Y)) ranting on like some Muslim Cleric about cuts and diversity in "the department" as they call it.

Then we have her sidekick Jon Day, who, incidentally was responsible for axing all your allowances, visiting MOD sites like some member of the Royal Family.

Then there are the endless seminars and briefings held in London and elsewhere by these non-entities.

Has anyone else noticed the proliferation of these taxpayer-funded jollyburghers?
 
#2
While there are lots of Civil Servants who do an excellent job and are very necessary there is a massive number who's only reason to exist is to expand their empires and justify themselves. If it makes you feel any better loads of CS at the sharp end hate the senior CS as well.

I know of several cases where people were accused of having more loyalty to the troops they supported than to their CS department, apparently this was a bad thing.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
If you truly believe the second paragraph of your post, then you are sadly delusional.

The MOD (and before that the Board of Admiralty, the War Office and, the Air Ministry) have always been in the driving seat. It comes down to the primacy of Parliament and the fact that the military, in all of its guises, exists to enforce the will of Parliament.

You may not agree with the diversity programmes adopted by the MOD - take it up with your MP. He/She will have the same arguments with the rest of the CS. As for V.Senior MOD CS visiting MOD establishments, would you rather that they stayed in their ivory towers and didn't listen to the concerns of the people (v.junior cs) on the ground? They tend not to ask questions like "How's the food? Mail getting through all right?"
 
#4
While there are lots of Civil Servants who do an excellent job and are very necessary there is a massive number who's only reason to exist is to expand their empires and justify themselves. If it makes you feel any better loads of CS at the sharp end hate the senior CS as well.

I know of several cases where people where accused of having more loyalty to the troops they supported than to their CS department, apparently this was a bad thing.
That neatly sums up most of the CS today. Today a manager tried to bully me into retracting a negative report about a recently introduced disastrous and morale sapping communication policy, by saying 'Think of your career'

I reminded him that if being dishonest with my colleagues and the public whom I serve is the price for my career, then I'm not interested in career advancement, or even continuing with it as it presently is. He looked at me completely unable to understand or accept my stance.
 
#6
Oh goody, time for the next thrilling installment of the 'all mod cs are *******' thread. Let me guess we'll see equivalent ranks, mess status tea breaks, allegations of jobsworthiness and the like raised by people whose sole experience of the cs appears to be a grumpy clerk twenty years ago.

Of course the cs isn't perfect and it has it's fair share of muppets in it. Strangely enough so do the armed forces! Both organisations have a roughly equal level of losers, jobsworths, rank obsessed tossers and people who are generally useless. Strangely enough both organisations have a lot of first rate people who are professionally brilliant and first rate socially as well. I'm sure these proportions are about the same as any other large organisation.

The reason pus (ursula and Jon day) get treated with some importance is because they are the professional heads of the mod cs (in the mid rank structure which has existed since we were formed in the 19th century, they are our 4 stars, hence they get treated with some respect).

I have no problem with making the point that the mod cs are a key part of defence. We play a key role, not just in the necessary supporting areas but also critical things like intelligence and rocket science. I've served in Iraq as a civil servant and Afghanistan as a serviceman and on both tours found that incoming rounds don't distinguish between cs or mil! We all play a role in the wider defence world and I find it immensely tiresome that people seek to drag up false images of a military establishment working despite the best efforts of the mod cs, whereas nothing could be further from the truth. I'm equally proud of what I've done to help make the uk safe and help save service persons lives through my work as a Vichy and in uniform. Both contributions are equally important to me as I know they've had a huge impact helping others

However what do I know, I'm just some useless jobsworth scummy cs who has done less for society than your average mp or paediphile.
 
#7
Bloody iPhones! Mong typing here so will tidy up post when back on normal pc. However figure of 5000 cs losing jobs is incorrect. The actual figure is 25000 cs losing jobs in sdsr - that's 25% more than all three services combined and this will have a huge impact on the rest of defence.
 
#8
Some of us civil servants may take the hump at your comments but I can not be arsed to day I know that I did my 24 years for Queen and Country and still try to help the troops out being a civil servant in the MOD now after leaving the colours.
I take it you know the low pay some of the junior Civil Servants get? And the crap that they put up with from the high and mighty senior civil servants? And some unenlightened members of the forces?

Ill give you an example of one that happened to me to day.

I have spent two years trying to get a project approved only a small one amidst the ones I deal with It was finally approved last month and given the go ahead. A miracle now the DIO control all the money but in the long run it would save more than the initial cost as it is in amongst a PFI so win win for the MOD

So the contact was let and works about to start Q an email from a SO1 Civil Servant saying that the project does not have the approval of the Unit that it would concern and that the CO wanted it stopping after half an hour on the phone educating him that the other unit that it would also concern wanted it and the unit now not wanting it actually made the suggestion via the CoC for it and if personalities change in a unit which they do and some ideas change people must look to the long term not the short term. Any way he finally worked out that it would enhance two units capabilities and save money long term.
One hour latter Q a Commanding Officer on the phone saying that he desired that the project stop and who was it that started the ball rolling and that he wanted to talk to him so I told him your last Qm and your predecessor suggested it up the CoC. Any way he would not be told and wanted to talk to the chap that gave it the final tick in the box no problems Col ill give you the phone number now.
One hour latter a very sheepish Lt Col phone’s and apologises and of course he would be delighted that the project should go ahead. I will never know if he actually got through to the final signature on the project but he must have spoken to some one way above his pay grade thank you Commander Field Army for signing of on my project that will help the troops and save money that can be used for some thing else.

So not all of us Civil servants are just clerks and takers of minuets some if not all of us make a difference in some way.

I do agree that there are some complete wastes of space out there that achieve sod all and cause more problems for every one.

But ask your self this what would the forces do with out the Civil Servants that do all the mundane jobs and some critical ones? Do you want to take minuets sort out contracts etc or do you want to be a soldier
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#9
WTF is going on with MOD Civil Servants?

When British Forces were something to be reckoned with, Civil Servants were clerks, drivers and, in senior terms, recorders of meeting minutes. They knew their place - to support the Armed Forces.

Nowadays they regard themselves as part of British Forces, obviously without the operational committments and responsibilities. We have this woman Ursula Brennan (PUS (Y)) ranting on like some Muslim Cleric about cuts and diversity in "the department" as they call it.

Then we have her sidekick Jon Day, who, incidentally was responsible for axing all your allowances, visiting MOD sites like some member of the Royal Family.

Then there are the endless seminars and briefings held in London and elsewhere by these non-entities.

Has anyone else noticed the proliferation of these taxpayer-funded jollyburghers?

There is simply nothing in that post that makes sense, is in any way based on facts, or relates in any way to how the MOD, Armed Forces, and Government actually operate. And you are presumably talking about the Ursula Brennan who I last met while (as a MOD Civil Servant) I was on my umpteenth Op Tour, in Afghanistan?

You, sir are the winner of the "Mr Obvious Wah" prize for today :)
 
#10
There is simply nothing in that post that makes sense, is in any way based on facts, or relates in any way to how the MOD, Armed Forces, and Government actually operate. And you are presumably talking about the Ursula Brennan who I last met while (as a MOD Civil Servant) I was on my umpteenth Op Tour, in Afghanistan?

You, sir are the winner of the "Mr Obvious Wah" prize for today :)
Got me going though, note to self take Valium before going on arrse
 
#11
WTF is going on with MOD Civil Servants?
Well,

We've had no proper pay rises for years and are getting none at the mo.

We're now expected to work for free, no more overtime but the job has to be done so crack on past home time.

There's a recruitment freeze so lots of gapped posts - See above.

25% of us are getting arbitrarily chopped - see above.

F**ck all chance of any promotion before I retire so my pay has hit the buffers.

Other than that, life's just peachy.


BTW, did I tell you we're all feeling utterly shat on and demotivated?
 
#14
Oh goody, time for the next thrilling installment of the 'all mod cs are *******' thread. Let me guess we'll see equivalent ranks, mess status tea breaks, allegations of jobsworthiness and the like raised by people whose sole experience of the cs appears to be a grumpy clerk twenty years ago.

Of course the cs isn't perfect and it has it's fair share of muppets in it. Strangely enough so do the armed forces! Both organisations have a roughly equal level of losers, jobsworths, rank obsessed tossers and people who are generally useless. Strangely enough both organisations have a lot of first rate people who are professionally brilliant and first rate socially as well. I'm sure these proportions are about the same as any other large organisation.

The reason pus (ursula and Jon day) get treated with some importance is because they are the professional heads of the mod cs (in the mid rank structure which has existed since we were formed in the 19th century, they are our 4 stars, hence they get treated with some respect).

I have no problem with making the point that the mod cs are a key part of defence. We play a key role, not just in the necessary supporting areas but also critical things like intelligence and rocket science. I've served in Iraq as a civil servant and Afghanistan as a serviceman and on both tours found that incoming rounds don't distinguish between cs or mil! We all play a role in the wider defence world and I find it immensely tiresome that people seek to drag up false images of a military establishment working despite the best efforts of the mod cs, whereas nothing could be further from the truth. I'm equally proud of what I've done to help make the uk safe and help save service persons lives through my work as a Vichy and in uniform. Both contributions are equally important to me as I know they've had a huge impact helping others

However what do I know, I'm just some useless jobsworth scummy cs who has done less for society than your average mp or paediphile.
Bloody good post Jim30, I agree with everything you have said. I am not and never have been a CS but I was and am proud to have been a serviceman.
 
#15
Some of us civil servants may take the hump at your comments but I can not be arsed to day I know that I did my 24 years for Queen and Country and still try to help the troops out being a civil servant in the MOD now after leaving the colours.
I take it you know the low pay some of the junior Civil Servants get? And the crap that they put up with from the high and mighty senior civil servants? And some unenlightened members of the forces?

Ill give you an example of one that happened to me to day.

I have spent two years trying to get a project approved only a small one amidst the ones I deal with It was finally approved last month and given the go ahead. A miracle now the DIO control all the money but in the long run it would save more than the initial cost as it is in amongst a PFI so win win for the MOD

So the contact was let and works about to start Q an email from a SO1 Civil Servant saying that the project does not have the approval of the Unit that it would concern and that the CO wanted it stopping after half an hour on the phone educating him that the other unit that it would also concern wanted it and the unit now not wanting it actually made the suggestion via the CoC for it and if personalities change in a unit which they do and some ideas change people must look to the long term not the short term. Any way he finally worked out that it would enhance two units capabilities and save money long term.
One hour latter Q a Commanding Officer on the phone saying that he desired that the project stop and who was it that started the ball rolling and that he wanted to talk to him so I told him your last Qm and your predecessor suggested it up the CoC. Any way he would not be told and wanted to talk to the chap that gave it the final tick in the box no problems Col ill give you the phone number now.
One hour latter a very sheepish Lt Col phone’s and apologises and of course he would be delighted that the project should go ahead. I will never know if he actually got through to the final signature on the project but he must have spoken to some one way above his pay grade thank you Commander Field Army for signing of on my project that will help the troops and save money that can be used for some thing else.

So not all of us Civil servants are just clerks and takers of minuets some if not all of us make a difference in some way.

I do agree that there are some complete wastes of space out there that achieve sod all and cause more problems for every one.

But ask your self this what would the forces do with out the Civil Servants that do all the mundane jobs and some critical ones? Do you want to take minuets sort out contracts etc or do you want to be a soldier
Hear Hear and well done, sometimes those who are serving in uniform get so wrapped up in themselves and in local sacred cows that it is easy to forget the big picture.

I am not and never have been a CS. I was and am proud to have been a serviceman
 
#16
I think that people need to get their heads around the fact that the three armed services and the Civil service are all components of the Ministry of Defence.

Go on the web site and see how it all fits together.

The Army is a fraction of the organisation and is one MOD tool that is used when required.
 
#17
Good posting by all on here. As an ex-serviceman of 27 years and now 14 years the CS, I see very little difference, we all get covered in the brown and smelly at some stage. However, I am still proud to be serving HM in whatever capacity, knowing that what we do is helping to achieve the same goals.
 

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