MOD, armed with pens!

#1
Right, simple question here. Does anyone know what the hell all of the staff in the MOD actually do?

I recently learnt that the MOD is just over 80,000 strong, which is more than the RAF and the Navy combined, and nearly as many as there are in the entire Army. Why?

Am I missing something here? How could there be so many pen pushing jobs? If we are struggling to maintain 9,000 troops out in Afghan, why do we need so many Subway eating fat Penguins? Anyone care to shed some light on this?
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
#2
posttopeters said:
Right, simple question here. Does anyone know what the hell all of the staff in the MOD actually do?

I recently learnt that the MOD is just over 80,000 strong, which is more than the RAF and the Navy combined, and nearly as many as there are in the entire Army. Why?

Am I missing something here? How could there be so many pen pushing jobs? If we are struggling to maintain 9,000 troops out in Afghan, why do we need so many Subway eating fat Penguins? Anyone care to shed some light on this?
:lol: 80,000?
 
#3
A procurement error provided 80,000 office chairs for the MoD, in order to cover this up additional staff were recruited.
 
#4
posttopeters said:
Right, simple question here. Does anyone know what the hell all of the staff in the MOD actually do?

I recently learnt that the MOD is just over 80,000 strong, which is more than the RAF and the Navy combined, and nearly as many as there are in the entire Army. Why?

Am I missing something here? How could there be so many pen pushing jobs? If we are struggling to maintain 9,000 troops out in Afghan, why do we need so many Subway eating fat Penguins? Anyone care to shed some light on this?
Why do we have 100,000 people in the Army when we only have 9,000 people deployed in Afghanistan?
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#7
You could always use the wonderful invention known as 'search' and find out the answers given when this question was asked on here the last time - and the time before that, and that, and that....

But just for a start, let's add up the numbers in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. the MGS, MDP, MPGS, lots of staff at Headley Court, Storemen, Drivers and general lowly-paid men and women at bases all around the UK. Plus all the staff in MOD Schools. All count as MOD Civilian staff, and that's a good few tens of thousands, I'd think - and that's without even having to use the 'search' bit............

OP = Knobber.
 
#8
Horridlittleman said:
Why do we have 100,000 people in the Army when we only have 9,000 people deployed in Afghanistan?
9,000 actually deployed in theatre at any one time. 18,000 within a year of deploying and 18,000 within a year of returning from theatre. Around 1,000 committed to deployments other than Afghanistan (Falklands, UN Cyprus, Kosovo etc) and 4,000 training for or having returned from such commitments within the last year. That's half the army used up on current deployments alone. Given that it's quite sensible to maintain forces to react to future developments, run training establishments, provide garrison services etc etc, having 100,000 people in the army isn't exactly excessive.
 
#9
Agree totally with Old Snowy - of the MOD CS, roughly 30,000 - 40,000 are office workers, of which most are admin staff and not mandarins. The rest are all industrial workers and skilled staff ranging from technicians to kitchen staff.

Knocking the CS is par for the course here, but I wish people understood what they were talking about before they did it!
 
#10
Well my CS day involves a fag break on the hour every hour, coffee every 30mins, and if I remember to check my e-mails for any work that's a bonus!

I obviously can't speak for all 80,000 of us though :wink:
 
#11
posttopeters said:
Am I missing something here?
Quite a lot really.

We used to have a lot more people in uniform. That costs a lot. It is cheaper to have civilian staff. Some time ago it was decided that only the deployable jobs were uniformed. The jobs still needed to be done, despite reducing numbers in uniform. Civilians replaced many non-deployable posts.

Do you understand the concept of harmony? It takes 5 x units rotating through Herrick to maintain harmony - so that would be 5 x your 9000 over a 2 year period doing nothing other than working up, deploying, sustaining, recovering then working up again. Not including courses, other training, leave, posting etc etc.

Thats a start.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
CQMS said:
A procurement error provided 80,000 office chairs for the MoD, in order to cover this up additional staff were recruited.
You have summed up in one pithy sentence the entirety of MOD procurement and civil service process :clap:
 
#14
Is there a section of the MoD web site that breaks down CS numbers because it would seem to me that this one comes up time and time again so the simple answer would be to point to a web site that says, there you go

I do suspect though that the MoD, like all the public sector has more than its fair share of outreach workers, diversity councilors etc etc
 
#15
meridian said:
Is there a section of the MoD web site that breaks down CS numbers because it would seem to me that this one comes up time and time again so the simple answer would be to point to a web site that says, there you go

I do suspect though that the MoD, like all the public sector has more than its fair share of outreach workers, diversity councilors etc etc
Yes, but they tack them on to proper jobs as "development opportunities" meaning that some poor sod on the floorplate (who's already doing the work of the two posts that were cut, on top of their own) gets to hold additional, often more rigourously policed, responsibility for some random lefty scheme.
 
#17
Meridian
I think the DASA site has a break down of industrial vs non industrial and of numbers in grade, but thats about it.

If I get time, I'll do a ARRSEPEDIA entry on the MOD to try and clear up a few common misconceptions about the organisation.
 
#18
Jim, that would be a good idea but surely the MoD, which is under pressure from left and right, would appreciate that the best form of defence is attack and publish ongoing breakdowns. This is a serious issue, the MoD CS must protect itself in the coming cuts, show value for money and that they are not the archtypical shiny arrse seat (expensive for the use of) polishers. If it had any sense it woud offer up any 'non jobs' not directly, but as published figures that could be unearthed by some enterprising tory researcher.

It is enough to make one weep and on a wider point, the sheer naivety of the MoD PR machine means they are perceived as bumbling amateurs, obsessed with covering arrse and not spending enough time using information as an instrument of war.
 
#19
#20
Odd really, in the days when we had an Empire and fought multiple wars accross the globe the War office had 958 officials , 164 were employed as messengers, (in 1886).
 

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