MoD accounts-and what happened to all those BOWMAN?

#1
BBC News - Watchdog refuses to sign off 'problematic' MoD accounts

Whitehall's spending watchdog has refused to sign off the Ministry of Defence's accounts for the fourth year in succession.

The National Audit Office (NAO) said it had failed to account properly for more than £6bn of equipment.

The head of the NAO, Amyas Morse, said the MoD had made efforts to improve its accounting.

But he said there remained "systemic and deep-rooted" problems with its asset management system.

Mr Morse said it had emerged the problems were more extensive than previously thought, as the work done to track down the equipment had brought fresh difficulties to light.

The report from the National Audit Office -an independent body that monitors government spending - said the MoD was unable to account for the whereabouts of £5.5bn of spares and other stocks.

It said it could not find £752m of military equipment, including firearms and 5,961 Bowman radios worth £184m.
 
#2
Was Amyas Morse not recently the MOD's commercial director?
 
#3
And is he better qualified than a certain previous financial director:

Q193 Mr Bacon: … Mr Woolley, are you a chartered accountant?

Mr Woolley: I am not.

Q194 Mr Bacon: Are you a qualified financial person of any kind? Do you have any financial qualifications?

Mr Woolley: I do not have financial qualifications.

Q195 Mr Bacon: What is your job?

Mr Woolley: I am the Finance Director of the Ministry of Defence.
 

OldSnowy

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#4
And is he better qualified than a certain previous financial director:

Q193 Mr Bacon: … Mr Woolley, are you a chartered accountant?

Mr Woolley: I am not.

Q194 Mr Bacon: Are you a qualified financial person of any kind? Do you have any financial qualifications?

Mr Woolley: I do not have financial qualifications.

Q195 Mr Bacon: What is your job?

Mr Woolley: I am the Finance Director of the Ministry of Defence.
Sadly, Trevor Wooley was (and remains) the best Finance Director the MOD has had. MOD finance does NOT need accounts, of any sort, as they have found to their cost over the bast few years. Was/is Trevor a 'finance person'? Most certainly. Was he a good administrator, politician, and civil Servant? Yes, as well. MOD is NOT a commercial operation, and attempts to make it into one end in disaster, or worse still by take-over by contractors, who always, without exception, have a track record of delivering less for more.

And yes, Mr Morse was MOD Commercial Director - and I will refrain from saying what he did - his record speaks for itself. That's the joy of importing highly-paid Commerical Directors.....
 
#5
I thought the previous years problems with signing off on the accounts was due to JPA, not stock issues.

If you look at the stuff from DASA as well, they caveat some of their recent output because of uncertainties caused by JPA
 
#6
I thought the previous years problems with signing off on the accounts was due to JPA, not stock issues.

If you look at the stuff from DASA as well, they caveat some of their recent output because of uncertainties caused by JPA
Would that be the award winning JPA?

msr
 
#7
My understanding, have dealt with the NAO previously is that this does not mean that the items are physically 'lost'. Instead it means that at the time NAO were looking into it, a proportion of the Bowman fleet could not be accounted for - this was due to issues such as it being out for upgrades, in theatre or destroyed in action or in transit to / from theatre, and not due to them all going walkies.

Part of the problem with carrying out global ops and wars is that sometimes the tracking paperwork takes a while to catch up. I'm not particularly concerned by this - we know the kit is in the system, and that it will be accounted for. No doubt the papers will claim that we've physically lost all this stuff though, which is utter b*llocks.
 
#8
My understanding, have dealt with the NAO previously is that this does not mean that the items are physically 'lost'. Instead it means that at the time NAO were looking into it, a proportion of the Bowman fleet could not be accounted for - this was due to issues such as it being out for upgrades, in theatre or destroyed in action or in transit to / from theatre, and not due to them all going walkies.

Part of the problem with carrying out global ops and wars is that sometimes the tracking paperwork takes a while to catch up. I'm not particularly concerned by this - we know the kit is in the system, and that it will be accounted for. No doubt the papers will claim that we've physically lost all this stuff though, which is utter b*llocks.
Totally agree, the true amount lost (or more likely nicked) probably runs in to millions, but nowhere near billions. A tour only last six months (normally) people are more worried about getting on a flight back than chasing up a bit of kit that they have no interest in, will not ever see again and will never be held accountable for.
Another thing is when kit goes missing and then turns up months later and without any paperwork, it gets added to an account but no-one knows where it came from so the "loss" can not be corrected.
 
#9
Great isn't it? DHL can account for 20 million packages a day and the MOD doesn't know where a single Brigade's worth of kit is.
 
#10
If we know we have some kit somewhere but not quite sure exactly where, what happens when we need it for you know, an operation of some sort

I don't think we should blithely dismiss this as nothing
 
#11
this is an improvement on last year as they could not account for 6.9 billion last year.
 
#12
Well, this is what happens when the MOD scrimps and saves by not investing in decent commercial asset management and tracking system. Sent some stuff got get fixed last year, via the supply system, hadn't heard back from anyone, supply answer was that they had lost it, so up to me to demand new replacements - despite having the ability to asset track boxes. That's pretty poor considering we're thinking about making loads of people redundant - why don't we find some compensating savings and stop losing stuff instead?
 
#14
To answer/confirm some of the above:

a. Yes, the same Amyas Morse who was in charge of Defence Procurement as the head of Commercial and
b. Yes, the same award-winning JPA system which is well-known and equally well loved.

I dread to think how much was "lost" during the Falklands. I know of at least 2 personnel who benefited from that war kit-wise.
 
#15
I don't think so Meridian - my understanding is that the kit isn't actually physically lost, its just that at any one time the MOD is currently unable to identify the location of it because it is in transit or elsewhere. There will be no budget repercussions as a result of this.
 
#16
the asset tracking system that the mod use is a joke, its not properly done from the off, also the way in which kit is tracked is a joke, take this example, which might explain it abit better, x2 boxes of gpmg's leave donnington headed for cyprus. they go straight to say brize. donington create paperwork. it arrives at brize. now a no of options could happen here. it gets sent to cyprus, which doesn't have an asset tracking system so it remains in the ether as far as being tracked or donington despatch it direct to the user unit, it arrivies at brize and can have no further asset tracking action taken. its a joke i tell thee
 
#17
I don't think so Meridian - my understanding is that the kit isn't actually physically lost, its just that at any one time the MOD is currently unable to identify the location of it because it is in transit or elsewhere. There will be no budget repercussions as a result of this.
That's good news, I could imagine every single person in the MoD looking underneath desks and behind filing cabinets for stuff if it was going to be charged against the budget

Do you think its just the pressure of sustained operations for over a decade, more important things to consider or an underlying problem

However you look at it, it's not very good is it
 
#18
I don't think so Meridian - my understanding is that the kit isn't actually physically lost, its just that at any one time the MOD is currently unable to identify the location of it because it is in transit or elsewhere. There will be no budget repercussions as a result of this.
Priceless - can't wait to hear this excuse next time someone is 'geographically challenged'. "I am not lost, I am just unable to identify my location" :)

msr
 
#19
I dread to think how much was "lost" during the Falklands. I know of at least 2 personnel who benefited from that war kit-wise.
Wasnt lost it went down on the atlantic conveyor
 
#20
I don't think so Meridian - my understanding is that the kit isn't actually physically lost, its just that at any one time the MOD is currently unable to identify the location of it because it is in transit or elsewhere. There will be no budget repercussions as a result of this.
Sorry, not having a go at you, but surely if kit is in transit, someone somewhere must hold the paperwork releasing it? We don't just ship materiel without the necessary documents surely? An invoice? A despatch note? A material movement ticket?
Kit doesn't just disappear because it is currently in a shipping container does it?
 

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