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Mobilisation cock up

#1
I'm in a tight spot and I could do with some advice.

I was called up by my unit four months ago for Herrick 18 and started at Chilwell on Monday. I applied for a Reservists Award, and I have been told now by Chilwell that the Army does not want to pay me as I earn too much (well within the £200k limit), Glasgow is trawling for a replacement and so I will be sent home. I have also had to leave my flat because it was provided by my employer. My employer and I will also be monumentally messed around if I have to go back; they because they are sacking people and don't expect me back for a year; me because I will now lack credibility and be top of the list, and the Army will have potentially ruined my career. I have otherwise met every other Army requirement, have been trained, and am generally good at my job.

I'm getting fed up with J1 responses about it being "Intelligent Mobilisation" when it is anything but. Does anybody have any informed opinions about where I stand legally or any advice about how best to approach the situation?


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#4
As I said, I am paid more than my rank in the Army but still within than the 200k limit. I have already been forced into a reduction of tens if thousands of pounds.

And no, it is not fair -at all- that I should accept the pay for my Army rank. I have a civilian job and this is how much I get paid. The Army called me up due to it's own manning gap, and I agreed to go under the terms offered by the Army, which are legal rights and part of my TACOS, namely that the Army would pay me my civilian salary and benefits up to a limit of 200k. I negotiated a release from a reluctant employer, where I will be held back professionally if I return and who will be messed around should I tip back up. I gave up my employer provided flat, moved out, put my belongings into storage in the interim and sent my girlfriend to stay with friends, on the understanding that the Army would fulfil it's commitment. Now I've reported for duty and met every requirement professionally and medically, but the Army have decided they don't want to pay me my legitimate salary. I have been told this is 'intelligent mobilisation'-making sure that the most appropriate person is mobilised. Bollocks. If it was intelligent, somebody would have made the decision before calling me up.


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#5
What did the J1 bods say about your paperwork? When I was mobilised (and it was a while ago now system may well have changed) The Army matched all my civvie pay, which like you was way more than my rank, without question once they had seen P60, payslips, pension contributions etc. The only issues with pay that I recall (with the guys that I was mobilsed with) were with the blokes who had not brought adequate paperwork to back up income claims etc. Are J1 asking for more paperwork to prove income? What advice have your unit given you in terms of appeal etc?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#6
"if it was intelligent, somebody would have made the decision before I was called up" is a valid point. If they are now applying a financial filter in addition to the cap of £200k then they should be making that clear during the early stages of the mobilisation process, long before RTMC.

As to the rest of it, the mobilisation process always has the option of people being sent home for a variety of reasons. I made this clear to my employer, and advised all of my lads to do the same. Until you have been formally taken into service right at the end you are just a TA bloke doing admin.
 
#7
I'm going to assume that you're a very senior officer to be expecting those sorts of salary levels? If for some bizarre reason you were a ranker who was lucky enough to earn that sort of civvy pay, then I could see why they might question it.

Also - I assume you're supplying 12 months of pay slips and a P60? Without accusing you of such a thing, I do know of folk who've just had a letter off their 'boss' saying how they earned xxxx amount and trying to claim it, or making up all sorts of 'bonuses' that they couldn't prove.....

Anyway - it is wrong and should have been sorted way back - RTMC is binning quite a lot of blokes on this current mobilisation for some pretty trivial reasons, with many of them being things that should have been noted at unit level months ago and flagged up as issues.

To only flag issues up once blokes have binned their jobs and put their lives into storage for a year is going to do nothing for retention......
 
#9
As I said, I am paid more than my rank in the Army but still within than the 200k limit. I have already been forced into a reduction of tens if thousands of pounds.

And no, it is not fair -at all- that I should accept the pay for my Army rank. Why not? - I'm sure you still have to volunteer to be considered to mobilise. Surely by being in the TA you are pretty much volunteering to go on tour and do a soldiers job. I have a civilian job and this is how much I get paid. The Army called me up due to it's own manning gap, and I agreed to go under the terms offered by the Army, which are legal rights and part of my TACOS, namely that the Army would pay me my civilian salary and benefits up to a limit of 200k. I negotiated a release from a reluctant employer, where I will be held back professionally if I return and who will be messed around should I tip back up. I gave up my employer provided flat, moved out, put my belongings into storage in the interim and sent my girlfriend to stay with friends, on the understanding that the Army would fulfil it's commitment. Now I've reported for duty and met every requirement professionally and medically, but the Army have decided they don't want to pay me my legitimate salary. I have been told this is 'intelligent mobilisation'-making sure that the most appropriate person is mobilised. Bollocks. If it was intelligent, somebody would have made the decision before calling me up.

Lets face it; we're skint! Why pay feck loads for someone to do a job that can be done equally well or better by someone for the same price as a reg?
I'm now awaiting the usual rant after one of my posts - bait on hook, crack on!
 
#11
I'm going to assume that you're a very senior officer to be expecting those sorts of salary levels? If for some bizarre reason you were a ranker who was lucky enough to earn that sort of civvy pay, then I could see why they might question it.

Also - I assume you're supplying 12 months of pay slips and a P60? Without accusing you of such a thing, I do know of folk who've just had a letter off their 'boss' saying how they earned xxxx amount and trying to claim it, or making up all sorts of 'bonuses' that they couldn't prove.....

Anyway - it is wrong and should have been sorted way back - RTMC is binning quite a lot of blokes on this current mobilisation for some pretty trivial reasons, with many of them being things that should have been noted at unit level months ago and flagged up as issues.

To only flag issues up once blokes have binned their jobs and put their lives into storage for a year is going to do nothing for retention......
I know a load of TA blokes who have very well paid civvie jobs who prefer to soldier in the ranks. High civvie pay is no indication of rank in the TA.
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
Strange that you now go to the 'top of the list' for redundancy with your employer - the one that is feeling the pinch in the recession. Automatically, and because of the Army. And that you had to clear out of the flat pretty sharpish. And you were in no way being considered for the chop before being mobilised. No, that can't have figured on your decision to apply for mobilisation, surely?

And there couldn't be any other reason why Chilwell declined you, could there? You were well within the salary cap after all. You wouldn't be on here looking for loopholes to make Chilwell keep you comfty when you were warned off for the chopping block in civvy would you?
 
#13
I know a load of TA blokes who have very well paid civvie jobs who prefer to soldier in the ranks. High civvie pay is no indication of rank in the TA.
I was just throwing out a suggestion as to why they'd bin him based on salary and/or refuse to pay him his full civvy pay. Doesn't really make any sense to pay a ranker close to 200K, because surely their role can't be that important that it can't be filled by someone cheaper?

Not saying it isn't wrong and shouldn't have been flagged earlier, but just playing devils advocate......
 
#14
Its gonna get expensive for HM Govt to call up a load of reserves if they cost up to 200k each! Perhaps the TA should have an idea of how much an individual is going to cost to call up, before they call them up.

And as for all these whingers, if his TACOS say he's entitled to the money, don't begrudge him it. Perhaps, cases like this will make the MoD think twice about its reliance on the reserves.
 
#15
I was just throwing out a suggestion as to why they'd bin him based on salary and/or refuse to pay him his full civvy pay. Doesn't really make any sense to pay a ranker close to 200K, because surely their role can't be that important that it can't be filled by someone cheaper?

Not saying it isn't wrong and shouldn't have been flagged earlier, but just playing devils advocate......
Makes perfect sense to me, however it's not me in the OP's situation.

Have to add that when I was in, we had to fund our hobbies out of our own pockets...........;P
 
#16
Hard to believe a unit cannot ensure in advance that an officer or soldier will be granted an uplift in military pay to offset loss of civvy wage. Long before it gets to this stage!

Intel mobilisation my arse. Begs the question of how many guys and girls have mobilised on rather large civvy wages when a TA or Reg could have gone for a much reduced cost to the taxpayer?
 
#17
Strange that you now go to the 'top of the list' for redundancy with your employer - the one that is feeling the pinch in the recession. Automatically, and because of the Army. And that you had to clear out of the flat pretty sharpish. And you were in no way being considered for the chop before being mobilised. No, that can't have figured on your decision to apply for mobilisation, surely?

And there couldn't be any other reason why Chilwell declined you, could there? You were well within the salary cap after all. You wouldn't be on here looking for loopholes to make Chilwell keep you comfty when you were warned off for the chopping block in civvy would you?
This comment is probably the closest thing to the truth in this thread.

...and saying things like this...

And no, it is not fair -at all- that I should accept the pay for my Army rank. I have a civilian job and this is how much I get paid.

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..makes you sound like a bit of a cry baby.

Also...

If it was intelligent, somebody would have made the decision before calling me up.


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.... agreed, maybe if you are such a 200k a year big shot you could of chased it up yourself instead of making a lot of irreversible decisions before you have even been accepted into service.

Surely you can still mobilise and receive the pay of your rank and level, thus stopping your girlfriend leaving you, your boss sacking you etc etc.
 
#18
Having seen what inexperienced Troopers in the HAC were getting paid on Ops I take issue with this. OP, take what they offer you and get on with it - the Army should not have to shell out x5 a Regs wage to get you to do the same job. It's unreasonable and frankly quite arrogant to assume you are 'worth' that.

If the Army's close to egalitarian wage structure is not on the same planet as your own remuneration stay at home. If you earn that much and can't 'afford' to take a pay cut to serve - unlucky mate.

In fairness you should have never been put in this situation and the 200k cap needs revising. When you have a stockbroker doing a Tpr's job for 200k and writing to his MP every time things get tasty things have gone horribly ******* wrong.


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#19
At the bottom of this is the MODs failure to have the guts to actually compulsority mobilise people. There are rules out there to protect all of us, not just "high flyers" from financial loss when called up and thats only fair - other wise we'd have a Reserve comprising only the unemployed and low waged.The MOD however, asks people to volunteer to be "Compulsorily Mobilised", a cop out if ever I heard one but then is obviously bleating when their own rules hit them. The "volunteer" paperwork should probably have a line about current civvy salery that would need to be matched so they can make that decision before the poor sod hands in his papers at work.... .
 
#20
...or put more bluntly for the hard of thinking. If the shit hits the fan and they do actually NEED the reserve then its pretty harsh that the result for a some will not only be 9 months away from home but also loss of that home, kids out of school, destitution etc. A good case in pouint would be the MODs heavy relaince on NHS doctors and surgeons. They earn WAY more in civvy street than MOD pays an RAMC doctor - Should they be left unable to meet the mortgage because they are in Bastion operating on some blokes brains ? The other options are either to pay for an AMS that has the very finest surgeons on the full-time staff - Not ppossible I'm told, the set-up is too small - or pay for them at "Contractor" rates, which will be even more expensive and limit what conditions they'll operate in.
 

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