Mo laoch! Michael Collins and Irish Independence.

It depends. On the one hand, I doubt the UK government could deliver if the result, as I think it might be, was to detach the mainland from the North of Ireland. The problems would be, as you intimate, cost - the cost of establishing a reunified Ireland (bourne because the UK was complicit in de-unifying the place), the alternate cost of establishing a new and Independent State of NI - not merely economic, but the international response and probable decline in UK status vis a vis responsibility for administration, treaties etc; and the cost of damage to the Commonwealth.

When the Free State withdrew from the Commonwealth in 1949, most people expected the UK to apply sanctions of one form or another. The actual outcome was to provide the Republic with continued integration and support. Australia, New Zealand and other members of the Commonwealth had significant Irish communities and were inclined to promote reason and understanding. Instead of treating the new Republic as a foreign state, Britain continued to manage relations through the Commonwealth Office, not the Foreign Office.

This is one of the reasons why, when the Troubles evolved in 1968/69, the UK had absolutely no idea what was going on in Ireland - any part of it. Although the Commonwealth and Foreign Office were amalgamated in 1968, until then and for some time afterward, reports from the newly appointed Foreign Office staff in Dublin were still routed through the Commonwealth structure. Sir John Peck, appointed Ambassador to Ireland in early 1970 confirmed all of this in his book 'Dublin from Downing Street', 1978.
 
With respect to the financial cost of a united Ireland, Gerry Fitt once said to a close friend of Mrs 06,

“Of course there should be a united Ireland but just as long as the British government leave their wallet on the mantle piece “

Neatly sums up the the situation.
 

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
Why would a United Ireland cost the UK billions?
I was hoping for some sort of realistic responses to my question but, if you haven't even grasped the basis tenets or considered all the potential concepts for a way forward then it's very sad.

It is all very well for you to continue posting about 30 year rules etc but it isn't moving anything forward. Reading most of your posts on this subject, the perception is that you would prefer to have Northern Ireland as a Loyalist only state, bankrolled (of course) by the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's a simple enough question: should the other three countries in the Union get a say in the future of Northern Ireland?

Why are you asking me why I think it will cost the rest of the UK billions? Your own commonsense will tell you why. Northern Ireland is in the unique situation of being in a mess both politically and demographically. Forget for a moment whose fault it is and just concentrate on how it can be put right for all the citizens of the Province. The notion on the table at the moment is a united Ireland so is it unreasonable of me to suggest that it will cost UK taxpayers billions whether you do unite or whether you don't?

Just think about what I'm saying here and then consider whether you personally are happy living alongside another group of people where hate and distrust is all you can look forward to. Do you really think that you can continue as you are with a mixed bag of various political parties and hidden groups agitating with the intent on holding you back? Who do you want to be governed by London, Dublin or Belfast autonomously? You can't go on as you are - or can you?

My point remains: whatever happens in Northern Ireland it will cost the HM Government of the UK billions so please don't respond to me by saying "why?" when you already know it will.
 
I was hoping for some sort of realistic responses to my question but, if you haven't even grasped the basis tenets or considered all the potential concepts for a way forward then it's very sad.

It is all very well for you to continue posting about 30 year rules etc but it isn't moving anything forward. Reading most of your posts on this subject, the perception is that you would prefer to have Northern Ireland as a Loyalist only state, bankrolled (of course) by the rest of the UK. Therefore, it's a simple enough question: should the other three countries in the Union get a say in the future of Northern Ireland?

Why are you asking me why I think it will cost the rest of the UK billions? Your own commonsense will tell you why. Northern Ireland is in the unique situation of being in a mess both politically and demographically. Forget for a moment whose fault it is and just concentrate on how it can be put right for all the citizens of the Province. The notion on the table at the moment is a united Ireland so is it unreasonable of me to suggest that it will cost UK taxpayers billions whether you do unite or whether you don't?

Just think about what I'm saying here and then consider whether you personally are happy living alongside another group of people where hate and distrust is all you can look forward to. Do you really think that you can continue as you are with a mixed bag of various political parties and hidden groups agitating with the intent on holding you back? Who do you want to be governed by London, Dublin or Belfast autonomously? You can't go on as you are - or can you?

My point remains: whatever happens in Northern Ireland it will cost the HM Government of the UK billions so please don't respond to me by saying "why?" when you already know it will.
Where did I ever say I wanted a Loyalist state?

I literally said hold the referendum and take the Irish question out of our politics and we can finally move on as a normal society.

Again I ask. If Ireland unified under Dublin rule.. why would have to cost the UK taxpayer, billions to facilitate?
 

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
Where did I ever say I wanted a Loyalist state?

I literally said hold the referendum and take the Irish question out of our politics and we can finally move on as a normal society.

Again I ask. If Ireland unified under Dublin rule.. why would have to cost the UK taxpayer, billions to facilitate?
Pointless question after question - I'm not Stacker 1 and you're not DaManBugs so sort yourself out mate.
 
Question after question - sort yourself out mate.
I genuinely don't see why the UK taxpayer would be beholden to facilitate the cost of any Irish unification.

Outside of state pension payments accrued upto the date of any unification.. the taxpayer would have no other liabilities.
 
When one organisation takes over another there is what's called a Transfer Of Undertaking. If there's an equivalent arrangement between nations, that will cost tens of billions.
 
When one organisation takes over another there is what's called a Transfer Of Undertaking. If there's an equivalent arrangement between nations, that will cost tens of billions.
Yes but NI's 10 billion quid block grant from London to keep the lights on, is no longer Londons problem, should there be a succesful vote to unify Ireland.

It then becomes Dublins headache.
 
No because it would be Irish service that you’d be getting so get ready to expect much less money
I'm expecting nothing..There'll be no Irish Unification.
 
Yes but NI's 10 billion quid block grant from London to keep the lights on, is no longer Londons problem, should there be a succesful vote to unify Ireland.

It then becomes Dublins headache.

I don't think it's that simple bro.
 
I literally said hold the referendum and take the Irish question out of our politics and we can finally move on as a normal society.
I reckon if the referendum result was a United Ireland, the UVF et al would kick off, if the result was stay part of the UK the IRA and friends would kick off. Probably more so if it was a very close result.
 
I reckon if the referendum result was a United Ireland, the UVF et al would kick off, if the result was stay part of the UK the IRA and friends would kick off. Probably more so if it was a very close result.
There wouldn't be an excuse for the UVF to kick off.. there's no appetite for a UI currently.

I don't believe the Provos have the support in the community for a resumption of an armed campaign.
The dissies can't even fart without getting lifted the next day.

Their community don't want their lives turned upside down and any progression up the tree of prosperity gone overnight.
 
There wouldn't be an excuse for the UVF to kick off.. there's no appetite for a UI currently.

I don't believe the Provos have the support in the community for a resumption of an armed campaign.
The dissies can't even fart without getting lifted the next day.

Their community don't want their lives turned upside down and any progression up the tree of prosperity gone overnight.

It doesn't take much to kick it off, then tit for tat killing/bombing escalate it even further.
Gerry and his band of merry men havent spent the last 30 years get jailed/injured/killed to give up over a referendum result.
 
It doesn't take much to kick it off, then tit for tat killing/bombing escalate it even further.
Gerry and his band of merry men havent spent the last 30 years get jailed/injured/killed to give up over a referendum result.
9/11 changed all that.
 
Q, I thought Eire had established they don’t want the North anyway (to much of a nightmare). So what is the point of a referendum anyway? Also if it is the case Eire has told the north to swivel, then under the good Friday agreement, wouldn’t the 3million citizens of the South have the right to join in (in a Referendum). Also if they did win a referendum (for leaving the Union) and then Eire did tell the north to do one, what next for the Prods?
Do you know I've lived here 50yrs and North and South I've never heard anyone call it "Eire' or heard two people have a conversation in Irish.
 

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
Do you know I've lived here 50yrs and North and South I've never heard anyone call it "Eire' or heard two people have a conversation in Irish.
I heard two farmers talking to each other in Irish in a pub on the Dingle peninsular about 12 years ago. There weren't many people in and, when they saw and heard that we were English, they switched to English and included us in the conversation. I love the south west of Ireland!
 
I heard two farmers talking to each other in Irish in a pub on the Dingle peninsular about 12 years ago. There weren't many people in and, when they saw and heard that we were English, they switched to English and included us in the conversation. I love the south west of Ireland!
So do I and I fish lough currane every chance but Mayo is my happy place.
 

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