Mo laoch! Michael Collins and Irish Independence.

@DaManBugs - did Irish independence really benefit the Irish working class man in any way?

Is the RoI today really any different from the UK?
They don't even have an NHS system.
To me, the whole thing seems pointless. Just another way to create layers of bureaucracy and more jobs for politicians.

Nationalism and patriotism has often been used to distract the working class from socialism.
The aristocracy convinces the working man to wave his little flag and doff his cap; to fight another foreign worker, rather than resist the aristocracy who exploits him.

Doesn't matter if the worker is waving an Irish tricolour in South Armagh or a Union Jack in the trenches. He's still been fooled.
Maybe you and Busy could have a special thread to yourselves. I'm sure if you both promised to stay there I'm sure we'd all promise to leave you there alone.

Sent from my S41 using Tapatalk
 
No mate, the whores work further up Mount Hooton Road ( well they used to) and across Mansfield Road into Mapperley Road.* I was born and brought up in Hyson Green so have an encylopaedic knowledge of the place and visit frequently. The mussies wont allow that sort of thing to happen near their shops but the kurds and the poles arent that fussed about it.


*Never been with a prostitute for two reasons- too handsome so I have to beat the women away with a shitty stick and secondly I am too miserly.
Used to be Southey Street in the late 80s.
Never partook myself but knew someone who did periodically after his divorce.
 

BlackDyke

War Hero
With you now, was thinking of the mainland bombs (WW2) more as opportunist Republican than pro-nazi. But point taken.
Yes the bombings were ostensibly separate from any Nazi stuff but there is evidence that the Abwehr were aware of the S-Plan and quite a few of the players in this operation later linked up with the Germans.

Like all spooky stuff, nothing is what it seems or is really that clear.
 
Well there were different versions of the IRA back then.
Same as the UVF was a different organisation.
I think I would agree with that for two reasons. A few years ago I enjoyed a visit to Collins Barracks in Dublin which I believe houses the national collection of material from the Easter Rising. From what I recall the central core of the 1916 'rebels' were by and large professional people, ranging from Lawyers, Teachers, Businessmen and possible Doctors and Nurses' and they seemed to conduct a fairly disciplined body of men while displaying a measure of leadership from the front.

For my UVF evidence on the other hand, I would need to jump forward to the summer of 1971. While on an admin run to HQNI I made a detour with my two LR patrol to visit an elderly relative of one of my guys who lived in the Holywood area. Driving in a suburban road I spotted a sign outside of a Victorian style red sandstone building which said 'UVF Hospital' - I immediately de-bussed the troops thinking 'cheeky bastauards' before it dawned on me that the plaque was brass, securely fixed, aged and not at all hidden from view. It was of course an artefact from a different era, from whence the UVF had a more prolonged respectability. Despite feeling a bit of a twat, I still think they were cheeky buggers.
 
Nit picking eh?
I'll start again.
You said "The PIRA was allied to the German Nazis".
The 'German Nazis' ended on 8th May 1945.
The Provisional IRA started in December 1969.
I asked you to name me just one PIRA member who was in concert with the Nazis.
You can't because there aren't any, quite a few OIRA types were during the war though.

I am beginning to suspect that you are one of these mongs who cannot fess up to being wrong.
When I served in Ulster the only lot who were remotely Nazi were the UVF who had strong links with the NF/BNP.

Put up or shut up.
People get confused about the Blue Shirts and where they formed from. At the same time you have the Connelly Column. There's a fair amount of links between the two groups that ended up fighting on different sides in the Spanish Civil War. There was a cracking book wrote about it a few years ago but I'm buggered if I can remember the name of it.

The various links between the UVF / UDA and NF and Blood & Honoour are still in place even though the NF is pretty moribund at the moment.
One of the more interesting bits of watching the UK far-right over the years is the various attempts by all the groups to make a dint in politics over there. Britain First were the last one to have a go and Paul Golding figured out that the court system over in Ulster could help BF overcome various problems with getting banned from social media. He is hoping to take the Electoral Commission to the High Court in Belfast as they won't allow him to register BF as a political party.
 

The_Gremlin

Old-Salt
I think I would agree with that for two reasons. A few years ago I enjoyed a visit to Collins Barracks in Dublin which I believe houses the national collection of material from the Easter Rising. From what I recall the central core of the 1916 'rebels' were by and large professional people, ranging from Lawyers, Teachers, Businessmen and possible Doctors and Nurses' and they seemed to conduct a fairly disciplined body of men while displaying a measure of leadership from the front.

For my UVF evidence on the other hand, I would need to jump forward to the summer of 1971. While on an admin run to HQNI I made a detour with my two LR patrol to visit an elderly relative of one of my guys who lived in the Holywood area. Driving in a suburban road I spotted a sign outside of a Victorian style red sandstone building which said 'UVF Hospital' - I immediately de-bussed the troops thinking 'cheeky bastauards' before it dawned on me that the plaque was brass, securely fixed, aged and not at all hidden from view. It was of course an artefact from a different era, from whence the UVF had a more prolonged respectability. Despite feeling a bit of a twat, I still think they were cheeky buggers.
The orig
I can point you many examples from various BNP manifestos that were far more left wing than the Labour Party at the time.
True. What we often call the ''Far Right'' is often economically left wing / socialist.
For example, PiS in Poland at the moment is economically quite socialist, but socially conservative.

The Nazis started off quite left wing, but the night of the long knives killed off the socialist elements, as Hitler wanted the support of the German Army officers who were aristocratic types.
 

BlackDyke

War Hero
People get confused about the Blue Shirts and where they formed from. At the same time you have the Connelly Column. There's a fair amount of links between the two groups that ended up fighting on different sides in the Spanish Civil War. There was a cracking book wrote about it a few years ago but I'm buggered if I can remember the name of it.

The various links between the UVF / UDA and NF and Blood & Honoour are still in place even though the NF is pretty moribund at the moment.
One of the more interesting bits of watching the UK far-right over the years is the various attempts by all the groups to make a dint in politics over there. Britain First were the last one to have a go and Paul Golding figured out that the court system over in Ulster could help BF overcome various problems with getting banned from social media. He is hoping to take the Electoral Commission to the High Court in Belfast as they won't allow him to register BF as a political party.
Then we have the pact between the (post anti-treaty) IRA and the Abwehr >>Irish Republican Army–Abwehr collaboration - Wikipedia

Of course, that particular flavour of IRA was very Socialist/Marxist orientated but still came to an accord with their diametric opposites.

Shouldn't really surprise us, after all the Germans and the Soviets were 'official' friends for a while.

NB; This is the lot that Gremlin said were the Provisional IRA.
 

The_Gremlin

Old-Salt
Used to be Southey Street in the late 80s.
Never partook myself but knew someone who did periodically after his divorce.
Of course you did.
 

The_Gremlin

Old-Salt
Then we have the pact between the (post anti-treaty) IRA and the Abwehr >>Irish Republican Army–Abwehr collaboration - Wikipedia

Of course, that particular flavour of IRA was very Socialist/Marxist orientated but still came to an accord with their diametric opposites.

Shouldn't really surprise us, after all the Germans and the Soviets were 'official' friends for a while.

NB; This is the lot that Gremlin said were the Provisional IRA.
Well I don't know that much about the IRA.
I've always considered the majority of them misguided idiots. Their top brass, well same as any other top brass really. Just out to exploit those beneath them.
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
Used to be Southey Street in the late 80s.
Never partook myself but knew someone who did periodically after his divorce.
In she same area really
 
The orig


True. What we often call the ''Far Right'' is often economically left wing / socialist.
For example, PiS in Poland at the moment is economically quite socialist, but socially conservative.

The Nazis started off quite left wing, but the night of the long knives killed off the socialist elements, as Hitler wanted the support of the German Army officers who were aristocratic types.
The socialists and trade unionists were amongst the first groups the Nazis targetted way before the night of the long knives. Hitler even left the NSDAP in the early 1920s for a while because the socialist element were not to his liking. He came back into the fold a couple of years later and took over which then kickstarted 10 years of violence before finally getting the chancellorship.
 

BlackDyke

War Hero
Well I don't know that much about the IRA.
I've always considered the majority of them misguided idiots. Their top brass, well same as any other top brass really. Just out to exploit those beneath them.
Clearly not.
Here's a bit of advice.
I don't know everything either so on threads that are outside of my knowledge remit I tend to read then ask questions for clarity.
That's how I learn stuff, it works well for me.
If I get something wrong and somebody corrects me I thank them and consider it a lesson learned, another plus and everybody forgets especially if you don't argue the toss and make yourself look like a c*nt.

On history I would put myself at about 2.5 to 3.0 out of 10.
There are loads around here who are 9.5 to 10 out of 10, loads of them.

If you don't know much then don't post until you do.
 
Clearly not.
Here's a bit of advice.
I don't know everything either so on threads that are outside of my knowledge remit I tend to read then ask questions for clarity.
That's how I learn stuff, it works well for me.
If I get something wrong and somebody corrects me I thank them and consider it a lesson learned, another plus and everybody forgets especially if you don't argue the toss and make yourself look like a c*nt.

On history I would put myself at about 2.5 to 3.0 out of 10.
There are loads around here who are 9.5 to 10 out of 10, loads of them.

If you don't know much then don't post until you do.
There are some people on here whose knowledge of history and many other topic is pretty incredible.
 
People get confused about the Blue Shirts and where they formed from. At the same time you have the Connelly Column. There's a fair amount of links between the two groups that ended up fighting on different sides in the Spanish Civil War. There was a cracking book wrote about it a few years ago but I'm buggered if I can remember the name of it.
Yes to that. The Blue Shirts were plastic fascists and were mainly drawn from the Army Comrades Association, i.e., the Free State Army, the pro-treaty branch of what was formerly the old IRA. Some of them went off to fight in the Spanish Civil War on Nationalists- Franco side; I think that was more caused by the Republicans killing of Catholic clergy than any belief in Fascism. That was a debacle and Franco sent them back home.

IRA involvement with the Germans in WW2 was similarly more about 'England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity' and planning for the (seemingly-unavoidable in 1940) German victory.
 

BlackDyke

War Hero
There are some people on here whose knowledge of history and many other topic is pretty incredible.
I know, hence being pretty careful when posting from my limited knowledge.
Modern European history from say the French Revolution onwards and US history are my passions but there are those who can cover vast time scales and in depth without wiki.

This place has sent me off on many enjoyable trips of knowledge.
 

Latest Threads

Top