MMA claims for Course travel

#1
can someone clarify the MMA claim procedure for when your on course,

ive just been away for 7 weeks traveling back home at weekends, i have had my MMA claim returned stating i need to have a copy of my car insurance included with the claim, with it marked that the car is covered for business use aswell....?

when i was on course in march, and made a claim then, i wasnt asked to include insurance marked business use.

why must we now have business use insurance to cover travelling to a course, when in the past JIs were ok, the course was 40 miles away, and i understand the claim is being done within the GYH scheme.

someone please explain as quite a few people are in the same boat and a little miffed at the way this new ruling has been sneeked in
 
#2
As far as I am aware - and I am no pay guru!

If you are claiming ODR (Official Duty Rate) then you need to have business rate insurance. If you are claiming at PCR/PTR whatever it is termed these days, then you do not need the business rate insuarance. Naturally PCR/PTR is a lower rate than ODR. Try JSP 341 or your pay office.

You say that you have been away for several weeks travelling at weekends, are you aware that you are only entitled to claim one return journey? To the course and from the course.
 
#3
Its in line with JPA and yes you do need the insurance to claim. The reason being that you are using the car for work and if you have an incident and try to claim whilst on route to work your insurance company is quite within its rights to tell you to go spin. Don't know why th eArmy has got a bag for it all of a sudden but overnight everybody a my place started using army hire vehicles and the MT had a fit (apologies for rambling)
 
#4
Firstly I believe that you have to show proof of business insurance for all rates of MMA - ODR and PCR.

Secondly I would suggest you speak to your RAO/Sqn CLk and ask about GHY(D). You do not need business cover to claim this and it is probably equally appropriate in this instance. Certainly worth a try if you are being fobbed of with MMA.
 
#5
The important thing to do is check that your car insurance covers you for the journeys you do. Insurers see journeys for which you get paid as business use, and your standard social, domestic and pleasure will not cover you. Without business cover any journey for which you claim MMA is uninsured, which means if you have a bump you are personally liable for any costs deemed your fault and will get a conviction for driving without insurance.

All the Army is doing is what all employers should do - check that employees are insured before they let them claim insurance.

That said, the Army is doing it in a very confusing and complicated fashion. Just make sure your insurer is happy though and you can't go wrong.

Edited to add: Remember that the only guide as to whether or not you're covered is your insurer, not anyone in the admin office. They might think they're correct, but your insurer has the final - and indeed only - say. With the current trend towards insurers seeking to avoid paying out as costs rise I would always check.
 
#6
You won't get ODR, very few people do, it's almost tantamount to the MoD commandeering your vehicle for official purposes. What you should get is Get You Home (detached Duty), paid on a sliding scale.

For info, you need business insurance for all claims involving a motor vehicle. It normally costs no extra, and is what a lot of civvies have anyway, as they, like us, may have to report to more than 1 site during their course of work.

The normal rate for MMA claims is MMA @ PCR.
 
#8
ok, little bit of an update, i phoned my insurance company and explained what i was wanting, they suggested i only need to have "including commuting to and from a place of work" added to my policy as "business cover" is for people who use there car for work, i.e travelling salesmen etc

so on that advice i added travelling to and from work, on recieving the new policy i took it to my clerk to confirm and she has said it needs to be "business class insurance"...............

however i know another person who has had a claim payed by having "commuting to and from work" policy

it seems to me that the people who really know is the insurance companies, why ...do we need to have the same cover as someone who ACTUALLY uses there car for business, when in all reality when travelling to and from a course you are infact, just commuting.

id really like to put this one to bed before i either spend money i dont need to on another policy change, and before i go away on a 12 week course in 3 weeks.

thanks,
 
#9
Commuting is classed as travelling to and from one place of work in the eyes of insurance companies - i.e home to permanent Unit. Once you use your car to travel to other places of work, even just sattelite Sub-Units but definatley another unit on course, you are using the vehicle for class A buisness use and you need to be insured accordingly - if you have a bump and the ins company find out the exact nature of your journey MMA would be the least of your worries. This subject has been done to death

Here:

MMA - Ins
 
#10
paywog said:
Commuting is classed as travelling to and from one place of work in the eyes of insurance companies - i.e home to permanent Unit. Once you use your car to travel to other places of work, even just sattelite Sub-Units but definatley another unit on course, you are using the vehicle for class A buisness use and you need to be insured accordingly - if you have a bump and the ins company find out the exact nature of your journey MMA would be the least of your worries. This subject has been done to death
i hear what your saying, but interestingly the insurance company doesnt see it the same way.

they would class its as business if, i was transporting weapons, or using my car in Basra for patrols.

to me, and others the whole way this is implemented seems very beurocratic and a means by which for the MOD to save money
 

Fugly

ADC
DirtyBAT
#11
Although I agree on the need for the insurance, i'ts being excercised as a penny pinching draconian excercise by the clerks and CoC.

A Cpl I know was loaded on a course 200 miles from his unit, and was refused MMA because of this, etc etc. They also refused him a hire car! So naturally he said "well, I can't attend the course then, if you can't get me there".

They then tried to charge him for refusing to attend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF?

If we can't get expenses back for our own cars, then hey-ho, give us a rental one. Not our problem if it costs more, we don't make the rules.
 
#12
Who is your insurance company??

If you get it in black and white from them that you are covered for the journeys you are claiming from the system cannot refuse you a claim!! - but make sure they have ALL the facts!
 
#13
A summary of the requirements are:

USE OF PRIVATE VEHICLES ON MOD DUTY JOURNEYS-
INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS

A. JSP 341 Ch 1, Para 1.071 et seq.
B. RAAC, Chap 3, 03.116-116.
C. JSP 752, Chap 4, Para 04.0618.

1. MOD Policy on the use of Private Vehicles is that individuals must have in place sufficient insurance to cover third party risks, including the carriage of passengers and damage to other vehicles or passengers.

2. The Policy is clearly laid down in JS Road Transport Regulations (JSP 341) (Reference A), Regulations for Army Allowances and Charges (RAAC) (Reference B) and the new Tri-Service Allowance Regulations (JSP 752), (Reference C). This policy has recently been re-stated by the Department and units are required to ensure its implementation.

3. The requirements are laid out below:

a. The driver is properly licensed to drive the vehicle.

b. The Vehicle is maintained, roadworthy and has a current MOT Certificate (if applicable).

c. That the Insurance in place covers the driver (and passengers) for Class 1 Business use (occasional use for employers business) and that the third party cover in place should be up to 10 million Pounds.

4. Individuals authorised to use their private car for duty journeys are required to:

a. Sign a certificate that the requirements at Para 3a to c are in place.

b. Produce if required a on request, a copy of their driving license and insurance and MOT Certificates.

This policy was re-directed by the chain of command during 2006 and units were required to publicise and implement it immediately. Hence earlier comments regarding increase use of hire transport, as some personnel refuse to pay additional premiums.

My Bn has implemented it and challenges claims occasionally at random as part of the Imprest Checking Officers process. Business Cover is required for duties other than commuting to and from work (ie, RPOD). I have to travel constantly between our dispersed sub units and took out the extra insurance which cost me an extra £10 on my Comp Policy, but what price peace of mind?
 
#14
Slightly off track here I’m afraid, but a young lad in the same department as myself has just been told he can not claim for going on leave in his own car as he requires business insurance!
Being a lot older I have not had cause to claim MMA for many years and feel I can not be of much help.
Is this correct, does he require this level of insurance or is somebody over reading the JSP’s?
Your assistance is most appreciated.
 
#15
Leave is after duties... Therefore whilst traveling home he is off duty and would not be using his car for business use but for private use... Your clerks are wrong to refuse the claim
 
#16
Army182
That was my logic also, however (unless he has the wrong end of the stick) they are sticking to it.
Leave to duty equals a business journey in their eyes!!! Which IMHO is B0110cks!!
Does anybody actually have a reference I could relate too for him?
Again with thanks.
 
#17
Gents, look at it from the insurance companies point of view. They neither know nor care how the Army works and treat everyone the same. In their eyes:

Employer gives you money for journey = Business Use

Simple as.

The Army is - very belatedly - doing what civvy employers have done for decades, which is to check that the individual is covered before paying them mileage.

To take the example quoted about the young lad refused mileage for his leave, his insurer will not cover him for paid journeys unless he has business cover. Therefore if he claims mileage without it he is driving uninsured. The Army recognises that encouraging soldiers to drive uninsured is a bad thing and will not let him do it.

Remember, the reason the Army pays you mileage is utterly irrelevant to your insurer - it is the fact that there is a payment for a journey that counts. Bluntly, ignore the confusing waffle dished out by the system and speak to your insurer. They, and they alone determine whether or not you are covered. "But my RAO/PSAO said ..." will cut no ice whatsoever when you're up in court for driving uninsured.

The JSP advice is confusing and unnecessary - all that is needed is a statement from your insurer that you are covered for a particular journey. Why the Army choose to issue it in such an opaque and obfuscatory manner beats me.
 
#18
I no longer claim for the occasional short journey as the paperwork is not worth the hassle, and for longer journeys I use a hire car. On balance, I think the hire car costs the MOD far more than paying me to use my car.

Recently, my clerk suggested that the train might be better and in a moment of madness, I allowed myself to be booked onto a train. The whole journey, whilst certainly less stressful on me, cost considerably more than the equivalent journey by hire car! Madness!

Litotes
 
#19
Litotes said:
I no longer claim for the occasional short journey as the paperwork is not worth the hassle, and for longer journeys I use a hire car. On balance, I think the hire car costs the MOD far more than paying me to use my car.

Recently, my clerk suggested that the train might be better and in a moment of madness, I allowed myself to be booked onto a train. The whole journey, whilst certainly less stressful on me, cost considerably more than the equivalent journey by hire car! Madness!

Litotes
Not necessarily. One of the reasons the MoD is so appallingly bad at budgets is that the most expensive line item of all - employees time - never figures in the calculations. Add up all the costs involved and one hour of a soldiers time - particularly at higher ranks - is worth quite a lot. So if you get an extra couple of hours to work on the train that may well offset the extra cost. Plus you perform better in meetings as you're less stressed. After all, civvy businesses don't pay for trains, laptops and mobiles out of a sense of altruism, they do it as they get more work out of the individual.

That's also why the sheer effort involved in claiming small amounts off the MoD as a soldier is so fatuous. If it costs more in employees time - at all stages it passes through - to process a claim than the claim is for then there's something deeply flawed with the system.
 
#20
Thank you OOTS for your reply, but my question still stands is this regiment’s clerk’s making a president or is it army policy that a soldier must have business insurance to claim MMA when travelling on and off leave to a recognised leave address?
Before leaving Germany for the final time last year, I was paid MMA for my journey to my in-laws home here in the UK. I was not asked to show business insurance, has the policy changed in the last eight months?
Are other regiments paying leave MMA without Business insurance?
With thanks, as always.
 

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