MK2 and ICSC(L)

#1
Word on the street is that if Offrs beige this yr and have not completed MK2 by next ICSC(L) they will be deselected and put back into the system as Captains?

Is this utter arrse or am i correct in thinking that as well as being an Adjt, i have to cram in MK2 around an Op tour - but not at work, obviously, as it doesn't work, therefore i have to do it at home (assuming i have a PC at home), around kids/wife etc.

I then have a 5 month un-accompanied tour at ICSC(L) to look fwd to....awesome

To summarise:

2 Tours in last 24 month, with another early next yr, followed 5 months at ICSC(L), in the meantime and try to get on PC in own time for around 10 hrs per week, whilst managing family????

Anybody above rank of Col care to, or indeed, have the MORAL COURAGE to comment.....


Don't bother with career enhancement, training opportunities, progression bollox either....

Sirs... when you were in our boat, you spent your time p!ssing it up in Germany with the occasional 6-mother in NI...there is no comparison...4 moths on AJD and 2 yrs accompanied at snr school seem a much more pleasant alternative!


....enraged Goon and Mrs Goon!!!! :x
 
#2
Goon,

This year's pre-ICSC(L) preparation included taking yourself through MK2. There is no exam, individuals are expected to do it themselves. A large number therefore might not have bothered. The package is timed at 24 hours work, and you are given the disk about 6 months early - equating to about an hour a week - IF you do it all. In addition you are tasked to do a 1000 word essay, based on your own experience and therefore very easy.

Of course, this could have changed, but worth checking your sources.

By the way, this years course is 8 months. I had heard in a brief from Glasgow that next years course is 7 months (not 5). You are not forced to be separated, and whilst moving your family for 7 months might not be feasible to you, it is your choice if you don't.


As I said, this is only what I have picked up and experience from this years course, but don't get yourself worked up too much until you have it on good authority. (Then you can schimpf all you like!) :)

I am not above the rank of Col, but at risk of sounding arrsey, last time I looked, no one was forcing us to do this job :)
 
#3
compus_mentus said:
Of course, this could have changed, but worth checking your sources.
Q4 of estimate.........the situation has changed....ICSC, now 5 months and 2 cses per yr and it is mandatory that ICSC students have completed and passes MK2 pri to ICSC next yr.

From pax i know, MK2 is around 100+ hrs, not 20 or so as quoted!
 
#4
compus_mentus said:
Of course, this could have changed, but worth checking your sources.
Q4 of estimate.........the situation has changed....ICSC, now 5 months and 2 cses per yr and it is mandatory that ICSC students have completed and passes MK2 pri to ICSC next yr.

The package is timed at 24 hours work
In reality MK2 is around 100+ hrs, is user unfriendly and riddled with errors
 
#5
Goon, whilst I sympathise with you, there is no point in getting your knickers in a twist. Most of the elements that you are b*itching about can be done, even if you claim tobe so busy. Your domestic arrangements as pointed out by C_M are your own choice and you can go to ICSC (L) accompanied.....it's better than living in Roberts Hall and a 2x6ft shoebox, believe me! A lot of MK 2 you should already know. Don't fret and get on with it.....It's not that onerous.
 
#6
goon_bde said:
From pax i know, MK2 is around 100+ hrs, not 20 or so as quoted!
Maybe, but we didn't have to do it all......

So, 100 hours and then 5 months. My maths is a bit rusty, but I make that less than the current 8 months (plus distance learning).

Are you on holiday at the moment then?
 
#7
compus_mentus said:
goon_bde said:
From pax i know, MK2 is around 100+ hrs, not 20 or so as quoted!
Maybe, but we didn't have to do it all......

So, 100 hours and then 5 months. My maths is a bit rusty, but I make that less than the current 8 months (plus distance learning).

Are you on holiday at the moment then?
Sorry, i think you missed my point...it wasn't the fact that the cse is 5 months, but that the cse is 5 months unaccompanied. the current ICSC had the option to serve accompanied...i know we're all busy, but to slap another 5 months unaccompanied serve after 3 op tours in 2 1/2 yrs takes the p!ss
 
#11
goon_bde said:
compus_mentus said:
Of course, this could have changed, but worth checking your sources.
Q4 of estimate.........the situation has changed....ICSC, now 5 months and 2 cses per yr and it is mandatory that ICSC students have completed and passes MK2 pri to ICSC next yr.
dear oh dear......You've got no chance of passing MK2......if you haven't realised that Q4 of the estimate doesn't exist anymore, it is considered in Q 1 of the Combat Estimate (aka 7 Questions).....And in anycase I am sure you meant Q4 of the Mission Analysis. You should do JOTAC before tackiling MK2......back of the class!
 
#13
goon_bde said:
Word on the street is that if Offrs beige this yr and have not completed MK2 by next ICSC(L) they will be deselected and put back into the system as Captains?

Is this utter arrse or am i correct in thinking that as well as being an Adjt, i have to cram in MK2 around an Op tour - but not at work, obviously, as it doesn't work, therefore i have to do it at home (assuming i have a PC at home), around kids/wife etc.
Goon,

The info I have is as follows (from OCDH) link: http://www.apc.dii.r.mil.uk/ocd/linked_files/apc/NewHandbook/Chapter 17.pdf

All Regular DE officers who commissioned on or after Apr 03 (CC022 onwards) must pass MK2. In steady state, passing MK2 will be a mandatory requirement for promotion to major and for attendance on ICSC(L). However, due to the delay in the launch of the MK2 package, MS promulgated transitional arrangements for those non-JCSC qualified officers eligible to be considered for Beige List (BL) 06.

In summary, the requirement to pass MK2 by non-JCSC qualified officers for BL 06 has been removed but officers from this cohort
attending ICSC(L) 3 starting in Sep 06 will still be required to pass MK2 by the time the course has started. The requirement for these officers to pass MK2 for promotion qualification to major will be reimposed for BL 07 (ie. by Oct 06).
Additionally the internal MS brief to MCM Divs for prep for BL 06 gives the following information:

Requirement for promotion is:

All 3 MA Modules (unless there is a waiver granted by your MCM Div);
MK2 is not needed for promotion;
JCSC or AJD are considered to be in lieu of MA;
You need 3 ARs as a capt with a positive recommendation;
You need to have at least 18 mons RD as a capt;
The last look is IPP minus 2 years;
Need to be medically fit.

You will need to complete MK2 as the start state for ICSC(L)3a or 3b.

As far as ICSC(L) 3 is concerned the folloiwng may be considered useful information (link: http://www.apc.dii.r.mil.uk/MSINTRO/linked_files/apc/msintro/ms_news.doc

ICSC(L)3 will be a split course with the ‘A’ Package starting in the first week of Sep 06 and the ‘B’ Package in the first week of Jan 07. Both Packages are 30 weeks long and have Employment Training (ET) and the intention is to allow offrs to include a Package preference on their PPP. All posts will be annotated to a Package but BL 06 offrs will have the full opportunity to run to any of the 450 Initial Jobs on the list. Detail on the Appointing Process will be published in Late Nov as a prelude to the Beige List announcement in early Dec.
pm me if you want more.
 
#15
goon_bde said:
Q4 of estimate.........the situation has changed....ICSC, now 5 months and 2 cses per yr and it is mandatory that ICSC students have completed and passes MK2 pri to ICSC next yr.

So, 30 weeks equals 5 months does it?

As I said, check your sources next time. And if you don't want the answer to a post, don't post it.

Finally, a parting note - Look around you. Funnily enough, you are not the only one that it applies to. Additionally, there will definitely be someone worse off than you. Think about those with kids, that not only get a hard time from their wives, but miss a big chunk of their children's early years through ops and courses (that look a lot like courses they spent five months on as a senior captain).

Bit of moral courage and soldier on.
 
#17
civvy_tendencies said:
goon,

Do you ever wish that you had not asked such a pathetic question?
erm no...there is continuing, information, mis-information and changes regarding OCD. This is all put down to "the transition period".

Whilst you may consider these to be 'pathetic issues', they clearly do no affect you directly.

I expect that you're alright jack, having had you career development squared away.

As for quartering issues, i'd say this is far from pathetic...not sure where you're coming from here...i still don't know the answer and can't find it...but can only assume that as the new ICSC is 30 wks long, quartering will be available...however, i'm hearing of friends retaining their quarters and going un-accompanied?

Pathetic to you and you cronies, maybe. Important issues to me, my wife & kids...

you inspire me with your attitude...
 
#18
civvy_tendencies said:
goon,

Do you ever wish that you had not asked such a pathetic question?
c_t

You are clearly not in the group of people who have had the rules for promotion and conversion of commission changed every year for the last five years (if not the rules, then definitely the practice). It is a ludicrous position people are being put in. However much people chirped about the old system, at least they knew the rules and where they stood. If one asked your desk officer he would confidently inform you of where you stood in your peer group and when you could expect to get promoted and if you could get to staff college. No more... they can't give you a straight answer because they are unsure of which way the wind will blow.

Now we have a situation where no one is sure what they have to achieve in order to get promoted - because it changes from year to year (and guess what ? it'll change again next year) - I think in shooting terms it is known as chasing the zero, no one is confident about the system.

Next gripe is ICSC(L) - a principle advantage with ICSC(L) was that people would know when they would go to Shrivenham - in the Sep after they get selected for promotion. No longer the case:

Dec 05 - Beige List 06
Jan 06 - Post ICSC(L) jobs list produced
Feb to May 06 - FCR 1s
Jun 06 - ICSC(L) board sits and published end of Jun.
Sep 06 - ICSC(L) 3a
Jan 07 - ICSC(L) 3b

You don't know which ICSC(L) you are attending until you discover which job you are getting which means that the uncertainty remains.

The other questions remain:

Do I stay in present MQ until next job? or move to next job prior to ICSC? or move to ICSC then on to new job?

If you are on ICSC(L) 3b will there be any MQs left after all the ICSC(L) 3a lot have made up their mind?

If those who have gone before do not care what happens to the next tranche how can we possibly be content? I have had enough of MS apologists trying to explain it away with a wave of a hand - 'it'll all come out in the wash' or 'if you can't take a joke...' or 'if you are committed you will do what is required.' Ironically I have made every attempt to get qualified ahead of time to see the rules change - I was one of those sad geeks who did JOTES ID a, b and c every year because that was what the rules said (to be done for the three years prior to AJD)... I completed MA modules A and B and then was told I wasn't going to be eligible for promotion because I hadn't done Module C at the time when module C hadn't even been delivered! I was taken off AJD because it was no longer essential and operational imperatives were... then couldn't get a crunchy SO3 appointment because I hadn't done AJD!

Next grip - conversion of commission. The infantry (for example) is overbearing Reg Cs in certain YoBs therefore getting a Reg C is difficult - competition is a fine thing. MS advice is to seek new employment branches if you are unsure about your future in the infantry. If you ask the MCM Div you get a noncommittal response. So should I stick it out in the infantry where I want to serve and try and get promoted and a Reg C or do I jump across to another Corps for the benefit of advancement? By jumping across are you undermining your credibility because there is no future in the infantry for you? how do you approach another Corps discretely to discover if the future is brighter there?



aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh




Writing this down has not helped, my therapist was wrong.
 
#19
CaptainPlume said:
Burst Disk wrote:

it is considered in Q 1 of the Combat Estimate (aka 7 Questions).....
Has someone published a new 7Qs without telling me? I thought the change in situation was considered in Q2!
CP you are entirely right, damn my sausage fingers...it was a typo. MA is now to be considered in Q2 What have I been told to do and why.
 
#20
barbs said:
Next grip - conversion of commission. The infantry (for example) is overbearing Reg Cs in certain YoBs therefore getting a Reg C is difficult - competition is a fine thing. MS advice is to seek new employment branches if you are unsure about your future in the infantry. If you ask the MCM Div you get a noncommittal response. So should I stick it out in the infantry where I want to serve and try and get promoted and a Reg C or do I jump across to another Corps for the benefit of advancement? By jumping across are you undermining your credibility because there is no future in the infantry for you? how do you approach another Corps discretely to discover if the future is brighter there?
Don't despair. If you are really serious about the transfer thing then approach an MCM div by phone, normally very informally and enquire about competition within. There are some particular Corps out there with bad reputations as man managers, if you have an ounce of skill and management acumen then you'll probably get to Lt Col without batting an eyelid. Give them a call and find out. You'll have to send them your last few OJARS and they'll decide whether you are suitable. After that it becomes more official and the cat is out! good luck whatever you do.
 

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