MK "EXAM" CHEATING: SKIVE 2 SURVIVE

Discussion in 'Officers' started by Subbie03, Jan 15, 2005.

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  1. Distance learning is crap and is only to save money. At least you can cheat on the exams, 'cause noo

    53.3%
  2. MK1 is great: noone will cheat, we will all earn our pass certificate, and the Army is wonderful.

    11.1%
  3. My adjtant and CO are great. ...I'm "quietly confident" that they will 'ensure' that I pas

    4.4%
  4. Who cares? I'm too senior for all this "MK" crap - my subbies can do what they like.

    31.1%

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  1. I'm on JOTAC at the moment - our course started Monday 3rd January. I haven't passed MK1 yet, but I have to sometime.

    My adjutant says I have to learn all the cr@p on the CDROM first, then do the exam from memory. This is tosh - there are tons of people on this course, and GOD KNOWS HOW MANY ELSEWHERE whose units have let them pass the exam *using* the big black MK packs *during* the so-called exam!!! They have just gone through the so-called "exam" and referred to the books to get the answers. Why are some of us forced to try to learn all the material when some people can do it with all their reference material?

    Some units seem to treat MK as a pis$-take: one bloke got help from his adjutant and assitant adjutant while he was doing it! How is that meant to work?!?! Apparently his adjutant and CO looked at the exam and saif that they were never expected to learn all that cr@p when they were subbies and so didn;t expect him too either!!

    BUT... THE EXAMS (MK1 and MK2) ALL GO INTERNET-BASED THIS YEAR: LOOK ON THE UPSIDE - CHEATING WILL BECOME PIS$-EASY: HOW MANY ADJUTANTS OR COMPANY COMMANDERS CAN SPARE THE TIME TO SIT ON SUBBIES SHOULDERS WHILE THEY USE THE BATTLION'S ONLY INTERNET TERMINAL IN THE RHQ BROOM CUPBOARD?!? PEOPLE WILL BE DUMPED IN ROOMS TO GET ON WITH IT, AND TOLD TO REPORT BACK WHEN FINISHED! WAHEY!! TONS OF CHANCES TO CHEAT!! IF THE SYSTEM HAS NO CREDIBILTY - WHY BOTHER SPENDING MONTHS LEARNING ALL THIS TOSH, IF 'JOE BLOGGS' AT THE NEXT UNIT HAS BLAGGED IT?!?

    This could be the upside to "DISTANCE LEARNING": it may be a pain in the ass, but "DISTANCE ASSESSMENT" is so easy to take advantage of, you don't really need to do thefirst thing properly anyway!
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    I know I'm going to sound ****, but what about the integrity thing?
     
  3. The Army sold that off months ago and moved it up North.
     
  4. msr

    msr LE

    From my joining instructions:

    Please be aware that it is a mandatory requirement that you successfully complete the MK1 assessment prior to attending JOTAC. Failure to do so will result in you not being accepted on the course.

    msr
     
  5. ...hmm. Appears to have fallen at the first hurdle. I know of people people getting away with murder with MK1, and if it is true what it says about MK1 about to be (and MK2) also being "internet-ised", while remaining unit-based, then I can't imagine it getting any better. I got 'lucky' and did one of the last JCSC courses with full IPSE (Integrated Promotion and Staff Exam) - if I had to do MK exams that I knew other people were blagging* them, I don't think I'd bother my ass to do anything but get through however. If The Powers That Be took MK1 and MK2 seriously, they wouldn't have what are effectively unit-based promotion exams. Could you imagine JOTES being run at unit level? That's what they're doing with MK1 isn't it - making captaincy within the CO's gift. What about IPSE - same for MK2/major.

    *("cheating" is such an ungentlemanly term - I'm sure Adjts across the Army are "bending", "reinterpreting", "adding realism to", "using Mission Command with", or "selectively applying" the rules - not "condoining cheating", of course!)

    It sounds as if, as with all courses, your joining instructions are wantonly aspirational - if what Subbie03 says is true, everyone hasn't passed MK1 before attending, so apparently MCM don't care what order you do the courses in. (Which sounds daft - presumably JOTAC is done by junior captains, who will need the grounding from MK1 in order to be able to understand the course, or better still, contribute to it...)

    If passing MK1 before JOTAC matters, why are people loaded on JOTAC without sending a copy of the MK1 pass certificate with their application form? Are you suggesting, MSR, that the fact people are loaded on JOTAC before doing MK1, is a catalyst to them being 'rushed' through MK1 by means fair or foul? Sounds eminently believeable to me! :wink:
     
  6. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

    [quote="Hello365
    *("cheating" is such an ungentlemanly term - I'm sure Adjts across the Army are "bending", "reinterpreting", "adding realism to", "using Mission Command with", or "selectively applying" the rules - .[/quote]

    quote]

    And I'm sure that any of them using such terms wouldn't be lying, they'd merely be "terminologically inexact"
     
  7. Mr_Fingerz, I agree that it is cheating - clearly some Adjts see it otherwise. I have heard that it is already going on though, and I can appreciate the perspective of those who are annoyed that others get away with it. I think the problem lies with rather stupid senior officers, who should have seen this coming. Why move from a highly-invigilated, centralised IPSE exam, which WAS, and equally importantly, was SEEN TO BE, fair, to a system in which a little 'leeway' here and there by units, compromises the credibility of the whole system?

    One of the few possibly constructive things in Subbie03's posting was the identification of the difference between distance LEARNING and distance ASSESSMENT. Whatever the merits of the former, I personally think to rely upon units to impartially adjudicate their own is unrealistic. I heard that there was an move to run the assessments exclusively in Army Education Centres, at monthly intervals, invigilated by the OC of the AEC. I think it was scrapped because it was too much work - although I don't see why it would be (AECs all have internet connections - usually broadband ALCs, and if invigilated by the OC - rather than "2Lt Fresh-From-RMAS", or worse, "Mr Random Civvie", you'd get some tranparency into the system).

    I think the root of the problem is senior officers' willingness to believe "Officers don't cheat, darling.. it's just not cricket." Unfortunately, it appears they do.
     
  8. msr

    msr LE

    I am not suggesting anything of the sort :wink:

    However there is alwys the possibility that one could keep on doing the tests until one passed....

    msr
     
  9. msr

    msr LE

    I am not suggesting anything of the sort :wink:

    However it has been mentioned that one could keep on doing the tests until one passed....

    I think that many of the beefs with MK1 are discussed in this thread:

    http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11518

    msr
     
  10. Errr...the concern with TA is that a disproportionate amount of money goes into the TA version of JOTAC. Whilst I would like to believe that the regular element take JOTAC very seriously (it is a good intro after all), the funding and allocation for the courses is decided on a seniority and capbadge basis. The TA version is loaded very differently. Therefore, they must ensure that TA personnel actually know what they are talking about (roughly) before they arrive, hence the requirement to pass the assessment. Regular personnel do not (strictly speaking) require this rejoinder...you would hope.

    As your tag says:

    Quite right too - extremely valuable Army time.
     
  11. msr

    msr LE

    I was of the understanding that the TA attend the second two weeks of the regular course. What do you mean by the 'TA version'?

    Anway, I can't believe that you are begrudging us the 30p spent on a ripped off copy of the MK1 CD?

    msr
     
  12. What do people think of this idea, then? Why not exclusively run MK assessments in AECs, on a monthly basis, invigilated by OC AECs? My real gripe, that started this thread, is not that I've got to work - but that lots of people out there are getting away with murder (possibly literally, if their ignorance causes a f#ck-up on ops..) The system is being abused, and MCM clearly don't care, or they wouldn't have implemented an exam system so open to abuse.

    • *** Comments on the AEC concept, please? ***
     
  13. JOTAC: twelve or so courses completed and already the entrance and exit tests are circulating the Junior Officer Corps. Some interesting things in there but basically three weeks away from the Regiment to go on the p***. When will the Army learn that it's not that we cheat, or anybody does for that matter, it is just that there are so many ways to make it easier for ourselves and by and large we go for the line of least resistance. Whether MK1 was run from AECs and monthly exams were the key a way would still be found to get round it. Until the teething problems are ironed out and newer versions brought online then they have just made a system that can be passed quite easy.
     
  14. Guys, lets put this into perspective. I appreciate it that there are mixed standards nationwide and some people do get away with "bending the rules" but at the end of the day its a stupid hurdle that we all have to cross and however we cross it, once its done it's done. Just think in years to come we can sit there when future subbies are moaning and say well we had to do it!!!! That is the mantra that all Majors seem to live by when giving loads of crap for you to do including Duncan bloody essays and the like!!!
     
  15. DangerMouse

    DangerMouse Old-Salt Moderator