"Mission Accomplished" my Arrse.....

There were serious errors made there but even this stuff is detail for me. By 2005 we should've already been back home for 3 years.
That would've created yet another power vacuum and the merry go round would carry on going.

Staying involved in AFG was a lesson we had learned. Failed nations state need support.
 

No.4 Mk.1

On ROPS
On ROPs
Now I know you're talking pish. SMA was a nasty piece of work. The best thing that ever happened was getting rid of him.
1. The day after he was sacked his 3000 strong militia who were on our pay roll (2002 to 2005) switched over to the Taliban side

2. So sacking SMA was the right thing to do, but leaving Dostum as Vice President and Sayyaf to run for President were also the right things to do? Bit of a confused Mission by the sound of it.
 
That would've created yet another power vacuum and the merry go round would carry on going.

Staying involved in AFG was a lesson we had learned. Failed nations state need support.
Here's where we differ. Who cares?

I understand that in 2001 the US need to go and slap them down but the guys the west actually have to worry about are not the ones you phos to death in a wheat field, they're the ones who can move between countries and infiltrate our societies. Since 9/11 I would argue that the security services have done a damn sight more to protect the UK public from Islamic terrorism than anyone serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If we need to, take a note out of the Israelis book and mow the lawn every now and then. It's cheaper than occupying the place.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
My personal feeling is we were doing things better. Troop densities were up and we were making an effort not to destroy everything we laid eyes on. Looking at some of the jobs my battalion conducted whilst it was very kinetic and lots of guys got medals (I had a grand old time as well), in hindsight I'm not convinced we helped matters.
That's my view as well, but I think there's an element of both factors. I think we did have to defeat the Taliban militarily before we could move on to properly building ANSF capability, but we probably went a bit OTT in just how kinetic we were in dealing with that problem. I had a conversation with a Para CSgt where he was singing the praises of his Pl Comd for enforcing a 150m bubble around the platoon where anyone who entered got shot. Not the best way to approach a hearts and minds campaign...

I think towards H14 we started to realise that the main effort was actually developing the ANSF rather than killing people. However, I think that we couldn't have done that well while fighting heavy contacts in the populated areas. By the time I got there, there was very little Taleban incursion into the population centres with most activity limited to the dashte. It was this reduction in violence that allowed us the time and space to develop the Afghans.
 
1. The day after he was sacked his 3000 strong militia who were on our pay roll (2002 to 2005) switched over to the Taliban side

2. So sacking SMA was the right thing to do, but leaving Dostum as Vice President and Sayyaf to run for President were also the right things to do? Bit of a confused Mission by the sound of it.
SMAs militia never switched to the Taliban. They were hated by the Taliban.

Dostum was given a token government position and has been gradually sidelined ever since.

You seem to have a thing about Sayyaf.
 
Call me pedantic, but i took deploying on Op Herrick quite seriously.

I only used my very limited Pashtun language in Bastion- i used to say hello, etc to an Afghan LEC grey beard most days. After about 4 months he stopped me one day and said "You are a good man". One of my proudest & the most humbling moment of my tour.

And they did let me play out - i did more than i had ever dreamed of by going out on 5 cmabt logistic patrols as top cover.
Campaign success and all that aside, this is just brilliant. Thank you.
 
I found this wiki piece very informative, and this quote most telling about OUR failures:

In early 2001 Massoud blah blah blah blah.​

You quote from Wikipedia and expect to be taken seriously? If you want to find out how stupid you are then go for a dinner at the Oxford & Cambridge Club on Pall Mall. Regale everyone with the knowledge you have (on any topic of your choice) and tell them you learnt it from Wiki and that you can say "good morning" in Pashto to an old man while he gobbles you off.

Funnily enough I doubt you'll be invited back.
 
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Sorry. I was feeding the baby at the time.

The afghan AO was a nightmare to understand with tribalism, blood feuds, greed and every other human weakness thrown into the fray.

Often, units would go and speak to somebody local and you're average AFG was very adept at describing their enemy as Taliban to gain ISAF support.

Here's a classic example.


Another example was the arbaki in the north of the country. Some bright spark thought it was a good idea to arm them as they were anti Taliban. Those of us in the know realised we'd arm people who didn't like the pashmina who had stolen their land over a century ago and would effectively ethnically cleanse the area.

We'd go into areas trying to clear it of Taliban to find strong Taliban resistance that was actually xenophobic Pashtuns who didn't want anybody around.


The problem seemed to stem from high rotation of units, poorly briefed on their AO and a command decision to make a difference during their tour.

RC east was the worst with tenth mountain and 101 airborne tryingtindemonstartea how great they were. Each left their area 'better' than they found it. The other took over, realised it was pants but couldn't be seen to be 'leaving it' in a worse state that it was reported to be in before they took over so over inflated how good the security situation was.

How do you explain to Tommy Atkins youre going to a country where some villages didn't even know the Russians were there in the 80s let alone ISAF. However the next village you go to has the village chief ask you in perfect BBC English about prime ministers question time. Never mind the 's**t we've broken down in the middle of the desert and we know nobody is around for miles' to later be surrounded by afghans offering to fix your vehicle.

Some serious mistakes were made out there, but looking at it now good stuff happened.

Even if you look at Northern Ireland for example and OP banner. I'm sure those who served in the late 70s and early 80s thought how pointless it was. But their actions set the Scene for a degree of success in the future.

I've mentioned this elsewhere but my first contact came almost immediately after some old boy had told us there had been no Taliban in the area for three years.

We all thought this was hilarious afterwards but looking back at it now I realise that we just thought of everyone who was shooting at us as Taliban and that there was a good chance they were members of some other group who we didn't even know existed who didn't like us, or at least didn't want us trapsing about their village.
 
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No.4 Mk.1

On ROPS
On ROPs
SMAs militia never switched to the Taliban. They were hated by the Taliban.
Afghan governor turned 3,000 men over to Taliban
As soon as the British Government insisted on sacking SMA Kharzi gave him a seat in the Government in Kabul, or are you going to tell me that didn't happen either?
Dostum was given a token government position and has been gradually sidelined ever since.
Dostum is the Vice President of Afghanistan and is currently leading military campaigns against the Taliban. Token position? Sidelined? Jesus Christ... i do hope you're trying to get a bite because the alternative is stupefying.
You seem to have a thing about Sayyaf.
About his first inviting OBL & AQ to Afghanistan? About him mentoring KSM? About him sending Massoud's assassins? I can't imagine why i keep thinking he's one of the greatest symbols of our incompetent, corrupt and almost comic failure...
 
Afghan governor turned 3,000 men over to Taliban
As soon as the British Government insisted on sacking SMA Kharzi gave him a seat in the Government in Kabul, or are you going to tell me that didn't happen either?

Dostum is the Vice President of Afghanistan and is currently leading military campaigns against the Taliban. Token position? Sidelined? Jesus Christ... i do hope you're trying to get a bite because the alternative is stupefying.

About his first inviting OBL & AQ to Afghanistan? About him mentoring KSM? About him sending Massoud's assassins? I can't imagine why i keep thinking he's one of the greatest symbols of our incompetent, corrupt and almost comic failure...
It must be true. It's in the telegraph......not.

Bitter man tries to make political gain from being sacked.

The Vice President in Afghanistan tends to not really have that much say in how the country gets run.

As I've said before. Dostum needs keeping on side as he has a habit of throwing a hissy fit.

Why no mention of Danish? He's a Vice President as well......

So we have a Pashtun president, one Uzbek Vice President (can't think of another influential Uzbek at the mo) and a Hazara as another Vice President. Where's the Tajik involvement in government? Oh here he is. It's Rabbanis son salahuddin.

It's almost like the present afghan government has had to do the same balancing act of keeping key power brokers and ethnic groupings happy by divvying up the key positions to keep their followers in line. And so the wonderful balancing act of afghan politics continues.

who'd have thunk it.
 

No.4 Mk.1

On ROPS
On ROPs
Campaign success and all that aside, this is just brilliant. Thank you.
My pleasure, although i think this was the best bit:

There were two VMs in my Platoon who were deployed forward to a PB. They were sent back after 3 days because they were considered an utter waste of space - playing hide and seek when there was work needed doing by their own admission. They were popular lads within the Platoon still - i think the limit of their 'punishment' for that was someone 'having a quiet word' with them - the same strict punishment dealt out to people caught sleeping on airfield stag. Professional army? Be the best? GTF.

And for the record i'm not bitter - i'm ****ing livid. Men died because the British Army (the Senior Command & small parts of it at least) didn't know their arrse from their elbow.
 

No.4 Mk.1

On ROPS
On ROPs
You seem to have a thing about Sayyaf.
This morning's news headline on khaama press:

Sayyaf urge militants to end slavery, insisting Taliban defeated in Operation Omari
"
Sayyaf was speaking during a gathering to commemorate the 24th anniversary of Mujahideen’s victory against the former Soviet-backed regime.

The event was organized by Afghanistan Protection and Stability Council, comprising prominent ex-Jihadi leaders and senior former government officials."

"Khaama Press is the largest Afghan online newspaper and was established in October 2010 in Kabul, Afghanistan by Khushnood Nabizada, an Afghan journalist. Khaama Pres is one of the most popular websites in Afghanistan based on Alexa ranking.,[6] and is indexed in Google News."
Khaama Press - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

No.4 Mk.1

On ROPS
On ROPs
The event was organized by Afghanistan Protection and Stability Council, comprising prominent ex-Jihadi leaders and senior former government officials.
A little more about the "Afghanistan Protection and Stability Council":

"Last week, a council of former Mujahedeen named “Protection and Stability” announced its existence; it, however, has not appointed its leadership, but Prof. Sayyaf is being respected for achieving political goals because he is the most eloquent and brave member of this council.

The important members of this council are; Abdul Hadi Arghandiwal, the leader of Hizb-i Islami (Kabul), Mohammad Younus Qanoni, the former Vice-President of the Afghan President and the former speaker of Wolesi Jirga (the Lower House of the Parliament), Bismillah Mohammad, the former defense minister, Ismail Khan, the former water and energy minister, Abdurrauf Ibrahimi, the Speaker of Wolesi Jirga, Fazal Hadi Muslimyar, the speaker of Meshrani Jirga (the Upper House of the Parliament), Mohammad Omar Daudzai, the former interior minister and Sadiq Muddabir, the senior official in the Karzai administration.

At the beginning, all of the above-mentioned personalities except Prof. Sayyaf were trying to encourage Karzai in order to establish an opposition against Ghani’s government; Karzai, however, advised them that Prof. Sayyaf should lead them;"
Afghanistan: Protection and Stability – Figures, Actions and Promises | Veterans Today
Who was it suggested that Sayyaf was a spent force and had no power base?
 

greyfergie

MIA
Book Reviewer
You seem to miss the point that no-one engages with you any more really, because you have little, if any, credibility. Others react to your more ludicrous claims and assertions - but this becomes a 'self devouring snake', as you have to be more and more outlandish to get a reaction.... This is already occurring.
 
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This morning's news headline on khaama press:

Sayyaf urge militants to end slavery, insisting Taliban defeated in Operation Omari
"
Sayyaf was speaking during a gathering to commemorate the 24th anniversary of Mujahideen’s victory against the former Soviet-backed regime.

The event was organized by Afghanistan Protection and Stability Council, comprising prominent ex-Jihadi leaders and senior former government officials."

"Khaama Press is the largest Afghan online newspaper and was established in October 2010 in Kabul, Afghanistan by Khushnood Nabizada, an Afghan journalist. Khaama Pres is one of the most popular websites in Afghanistan based on Alexa ranking.,[6] and is indexed in Google News."
Khaama Press - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quoted in a news paper.

A new deal on drugs is as vital as a climate change accord | Nick Clegg and Bohuslav Sobotka

Influential?
 
A little more about the "Afghanistan Protection and Stability Council":

"Last week, a council of former Mujahedeen named “Protection and Stability” announced its existence; it, however, has not appointed its leadership, but Prof. Sayyaf is being respected for achieving political goals because he is the most eloquent and brave member of this council.

The important members of this council are; Abdul Hadi Arghandiwal, the leader of Hizb-i Islami (Kabul), Mohammad Younus Qanoni, the former Vice-President of the Afghan President and the former speaker of Wolesi Jirga (the Lower House of the Parliament), Bismillah Mohammad, the former defense minister, Ismail Khan, the former water and energy minister, Abdurrauf Ibrahimi, the Speaker of Wolesi Jirga, Fazal Hadi Muslimyar, the speaker of Meshrani Jirga (the Upper House of the Parliament), Mohammad Omar Daudzai, the former interior minister and Sadiq Muddabir, the senior official in the Karzai administration.

At the beginning, all of the above-mentioned personalities except Prof. Sayyaf were trying to encourage Karzai in order to establish an opposition against Ghani’s government; Karzai, however, advised them that Prof. Sayyaf should lead them;"
Afghanistan: Protection and Stability – Figures, Actions and Promises | Veterans Today
Who was it suggested that Sayyaf was a spent force and had no power base?

Karzais choices were positions of power for local power brokers to keep them on board.

.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
I read in today's Times (or was it yesterday's Telegraph) that Al Q are rebuilding themselves in Afghanistan now that we etc have gone home.
 

No.4 Mk.1

On ROPS
On ROPs
Afghan Vice-President Gen. Dostum accused of getting a bit rapey with his political opponents again:

http://www.khaama.com/abuse-pro-insurgency-surround-afghan-vp-rivals-controversy-02469
Mr. Ishchi has also claimed that the vice president even filmed the sexual abuse committed on him as well as his bodyguards.

However, the office of the first vice president, in a statement rejected the allegations as baseless and accused Mr. Ischchi of pro-militants activities.


In the meantime, the Office of the President, ARG Palace, said all allegations of abuse of abuse against Mr. Ishchi will be fully investigated, a statement which was welcomed by the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan.

 

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