Miscellaneous equipment questions

[ouyin]

1. In 37 patt webbing there are two large pouches at the front, I'm guessing these are ammo pouches, however, since the SMLE used clips how was this ammo stored? Were there bandoliers in the pouches or some other storage method other then dumping ammo into the pouches?

2. In the old tin helmets there's a spike on the inside, what the heck is that supposed to be for?

 

[RedRabbit]

The spike in the helmet fits into a "lift the dot" fastener in the cradle of the helmet. The cradle is the bit that actually sits on your head and separates the metal shell of the helmet from your dome by about an inch. It's just the same method as used on the later "turtleback" helmet. The shells are all pretty much the same size - its the different sized cradles that fit into them that give a range of sizes.

Anyone who remembers the turtleback will tell you how (in)efficient the cradle was at cushioning your head from the spike. You can always tell an ex-squaddie from that era by feeling his bumps(!).

 

[The_IRON]

Can remember when some one fcuked in basic training being told to take the spiders out the helmet as punishment. You can tell all those who joined up before 1990 because they have a small dint in the top of their heads.

 

[craftsmanx]

.303 ammo came in bandoliers but each 5 rounds was also in a quick cgarge clip. Ammo was carried in the pouches in clips so that you relaoded 5 rounds ata time. Except for the Bren on which the magazines were loaded off the gun round by round. For those who didnt wear pouches they were replaced by Attachments Brace which fitted on the belt in the same way but repalced the pouch with a length of webbing.

 

[oldbaldy]

Can remember when some one fcuked in basic training being told to take the spiders out the helmet as punishment. You can tell all those who joined up before 1990 because they have a small dint in the top of their heads.

 

[Lofty19]

...You can tell all those who joined up before 1990 because they have a small dint in the top of their heads.

Most of my dints came from trying to bump the ceiling!

Mk 6 bin lid was issued from '86. Still got the old spider though. Comes in handy for a viking or medieval night in the Mess.

 

[W.Anchor]

We used the pouches for grenades and carried the ammunition in the bandoleers. Each bandoleer carried 50 rounds and we used to tie them together and wear them as sort of cross belts that way we always had 200 rounds with us

 

[ken_khon]

Talking of punishment, anybody remember seeing SUS doubling around in highly bulled up tin hats?

Don't suppose that'd be allowed now.

 

[EX_STAB]

Can remember when some one fcuked in basic training being told to take the spiders out the helmet as punishment. You can tell all those who joined up before 1990 because they have a small dint in the top of their heads.

I've just had a feel and you're right!

 

[EX_STAB]

Here's a bandolier:

They hold 50 rounds in five pockets, each pocket has two five round chargers in it. The 1960's South African ones (as pictured above) were packed with a card insert between the two chargers, presumably to stop them rattling.

Here are some chargers (stripper clips)

The 1957 Radway Green ones we were firing today had no card packer. The British bandoliers I have are of much stronger fabric than the South African ones, although as they were a disposable item I doubt this really mattered. They had slightly different fastenings too. Here's a bandolier showing the strap arrangement:

It's been knotted to adjust the length.

Apparently the Australian ones had press-stud fastening and an adjustable strap. British ones I've seen have a brass or copper wire loop fastening, South African ones have a pressed brass tab.
The 37 large pouches were intended for Bren magazines in the main although of course you could stick extra kit in them.

I have a pair of these rifle pattern pouches that just hold chargers. Don't know what the idea was with these, they must have cost far more to make than the standard large '37 pouches!

 

[nigelw]

If its any help

quartered safe out here bu macdonald Fraser explain how it all worked in 1944/45

 

[General Melchett]

The basic pouches on the P'37 webbing could be used for a number of things and were seen as a great improvement over the previous P'08 webbing which had a total of ten pockets to take three 5 round chargers of .303, it could only be used for .303 ammo.

The P'37 pouches could be used for bandoliers of ammo, grenades, BREN mags, 2" mortar rounds etc etc. As shown in the above picture cartridge carriers were introduced for those arms who didn't need a large ammo carrying capacity.

Any more miscellaneous train spotter webbing questions ask away and I'll try my best to answer.

 

[Cpl_ripper]

Talking of punishment, anybody remember seeing SUS doubling around in highly bulled up tin hats?

Don't suppose that'd be allowed now.

Doubling with no laces, Joy.

I remember doing abit of "Forward and Back" on a short handle triple headded floor bumper.

 

[The_IRON]

Talking of punishment, anybody remember seeing SUS doubling around in highly bulled up tin hats?

Don't suppose that'd be allowed now.

Doubling with no laces, Joy.

I remember doing abit of "Forward and Back" on a short handle triple headded floor bumper.

Was that the Mark1 bumper
or the Mark2 bumper with blanket attached for extra glide

 

[Deleted 20555]

Were the bren magazines distributed and carried through the section?

 

[ugly]

The basic pouches on the P'37 webbing could be used for a number of things and were seen as a great improvement over the previous P'08 webbing which had a total of ten pockets to take three 5 round chargers of .303, it could only be used for .303 ammo.

The P'37 pouches could be used for bandoliers of ammo, grenades, BREN mags, 2" mortar rounds etc etc. As shown in the above picture cartridge carriers were introduced for those arms who didn't need a large ammo carrying capacity.

Any more miscellaneous train spotter webbing questions ask away and I'll try my best to answer.

Just a reminder that the lad looking after your stuff is overseas for a couple of weeks!

 

[ugly]

Were the bren magazines distributed and carried through the section?

There was a great D Day Tommy poster in Battle in the late 70's showing what the Infantry man carried. He had Bandoliers of .303 a minimum of 2, (all of this from memory) two or 3 Bren Mags full, 3 or 4 Mills bombs or 36 grenades. That was in his pouches. If he was assault troops they had a battle jerkin which was an assault vest for the 40's. It was basically a couple of extra bren mag pouches on a canvas jerkin.

I think he carried his large pack to dump at Company lines and his small pack was carried to hold his 24hr kit! Musnt forget cork stoppered tin waterbottle and entrenching tool. Gas masks/respirators were worn across the chest. Nice. Not forgetting the spike in helmet for the spider!

 

[General Melchett]

Cheers Ugly. I'll get up to him soonest.

On the subject of BREN mags I've seen a training poster of WW2 vintage which shows the section riflemen carrying 2 mags, apart from section comd who had a STEN gun. Bren team had more mags but can't remember how many, plus the BREN spares and a machete.

 

[ugly]

You'll have to advertise your groups events GM so we can have a look at OLE BILL. By the way if anyone has an FAC and a rifle from the great war there is a match at Bisley for the huge sum of £1 or there abouts. Its for anyone who wants a blast, september the 19th run by my club the HBSA. pm me for details, it is the 100th anniversary of acceptance into service of the SMLE!