Ministers using fear of terror

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Biped, Feb 17, 2009.

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  1. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Straight from the horses mouth, and echoing only what has been said here repeatedly.

    If the ex-boss of the Intelligence service is saying this, and the politicians have been fighting for a further reduction in our liberties, despite the advice of the intelligence services, then the reason for said reduction is far more about Labour wanting stasi-like powers over the British people to fulfill their communist ideals than it is about 'protecting our freedoms'.

    About time we arrested the fcuking lot of them, REINSTATE capital punishment, REINSTATE the penalty for treason, then shoot them for it.

    From the Beeb (and Tellingraph)

    And this from part of the Telegraph article:

  2. They continue to try more and more everyday to increase that fear, so we will accept a reduction in our liberty and make us more ready to accept anything from torture to DNA Testing of children. They like any government that is driven by the cult of personality rather than governance can only thrive in the conditions of totalitarianism.

    Personally Biped sod the beak and the mall has plenty of lamposts...

    Its the Italian in me that likes lamposts so much. =)
  3. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    Wow - you're good - you can type with an Italian in you!

    Back on thread - absolutely true. It goes back to some of my earlier comments about both Brown and Blair (but you can echo that across most of the Labour Party), this being that they are not here to improve the lot of the British people, they are merely here for the sake of power and nothing more. That's why so many of them are abusing it, and loading up their carts with the gold of the state before they get ousted.

    It's a case of 'fill yer boots lads, and make sure we stay in charge while we're doing it'.
  4. Here's the classic example of that twisting of the 'law'

    Don't take a photo of the police, or forces.

    So lets get thes illegal wesites shut down



    I, of course, expect a huge police operation in defence of the military pesonnel carrying out public duties. I mean there would be footage and pictures of the 'beats' of the sentries. If that's not an aid to terrorism, I don't know what is.

    Civil liberties? Someone please tell me why I appear to be living in the Eastern Bloc.
  5. I was pleased to see this headline and see it on the Beeb today....

    It is something I have been saying for a few years and receiving nothing but disbelieving looks from friends & family.

    But is anyone really surprised? It's a thought that has been echoed on this site for ages, and it is a tried and trusted political tactic all the way back to Pompey* and the pirates, and before.....

    * (no connection to scr name)
  6. Yesterdays Tax raiser was the Environment, today it's Terror.
  7. I have the uneasy feeling that governments have been getting more and more authoritarian in Britain for longer than NL have been around. It's just more visible these days because there's been enough time to undermine the pillars of impartiality in our civil society.

    We've not had a 'sage'* in government for quite some time.

    (See signature for explanation.)
  8. Well the war on terror is all predicated on a bunch of what did you expect?
  9. Arguable that by declaring a war on terror you actually legitimise what the terrorists are doing.
  10. Nothing really new, terrorism has been a gift to various Governments in Britain for decades. It is the excuse number one for introducing more restrictions. I feel more threatened by the Government in England and also here in Germany than by the terrorists who are allegedly going to or have been trying to kill me, for the past almost 40 years. The repeated warnings about possible terrorist attacks are strongly reminiscent of the tale about the little boy who kept on shouting "wolf".
  11. I wonder what she'd say if she was still in charge of MI5 and therefore had access to information on which all these laws & measures are based? If it was a Conservative government in power, would things really be that different? Maybe that's the price to pay for allowing Londonistan etc to happen?
  12. Biped,I nearly agree with you 100%.

    The slight disagreement I have is that shooting is far too good for any of our political corrupt scum and a short drop televised would provide better entertainment for the taxpayers who have had to pay to keep these parasites in the luxuary they have been so accustumed to.
  13. Dead right.I live overseas,and every time I return to Britain,I notice the latest restrictions since I was last here.

    IMHO,if Labour somehow win the next election(ballot rigging cannot be ruled out),that will be the last free election.Some terrorist outrage or scare will result in Labour suspending the elective process indefinatly.
  14. "Necessity is the justification for every infringement of human liberty. It is the plea of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves".

    As right in 1782 as it is today. Our Government have pleaded necessity in order to justify the massive expansion of the State's ability to control its own people.

    There has been an abject failure on the part of Government to stop things getting out of hand. There has been a craven failure of Parliament to stand up for civil rights (stand fast 42 days). And worst of all, there has been an abject, craven failure of the British people to realise that this was wrong. As long as we had Sky TV and credit cards the Government could do whatever it wanted. We let them get away with it, and we have to take our share of the blame.

  15. It's simply being used as a vote getter. Both sides are shouting they're tough on / going to be tougher on terrorism.

    Just what is the threat? I believe, contrary to 'Government ' opinion , that it can be quantified. What exactly is the scale of the threat?

    We hear an awful lot about disgruntled young men of the Islamic persuasion looking to bring themselves and others closer to the Sherbert and Virgins, but where are the ASU's and CoC's in the UK? Where are the dedicated bombmakers , the planners , the propagandists? Where is the cohesive para-military structure a la PIRA?

    Living in a predominantly Islamic area as I do , discussions with locals are enlightening. The Gulf between recent immigrants and those established is large. There is bitterness and divisiveness in the Islamic Community very evident hereabouts.

    Gulf Arabs and Iranians don't like Pakistanis , Established Pakistanis don't like their countrymen from the poorer , more religiously devout areas , and all groups hate Somalis.

    Young men don't attend Mosque as much as their parents would like, which is divided into groups who think Islam needs to get into the 21st century then they'll attend , groups who wholeheartedly immerse themselves in the message , and those who don't attend, because it gets in the way of cruising and selling smack.

    Then there is the sub-culture who really want to get into the fight against us, and will travel to do it. They'll attend a religious school in Pakistan telling their families they intend to further their studies, then end up on a hillside shooting at us. Then having had their bash at Jihad, will return to the UK and rejoin the community.

    Some of them feel very very strongly that the West is attacking Islam. But for every angry young man that feels like that, there are many others, especially amongst the Iranian , Iraqi and affluent Pakistani diaspora who will tell them to get a life and an education.

    A real shock recently to me, was sitting in a cafe hereabouts, listening to young Pakistanis discussing with enthusiasm something they'd seen on TV. They were talking about firefights and Afghanistan, and it was wicked etc etc.

    It wasn't until one said "That Ross Kemp bloke is brave" that I realised what they were discussing. The discussion then evolved into the rights and wrongs of Afghanistan , but a telling remark from one individual gave me pause for thought. "They're not fighting US because they want to, it's because they been told to by the Government innit"

    It was the use of "US" that really made me think.

    Maybe we really need to have serious think about how the war in Afghanistan is portrayed. We think of it as a struggle to reduce the threat of terrorism, while chunks of the Islamic youth community think of it as a idealogical struggle. We need to change the message.

    The message so far, is aimed at the majority of the British population, the White, Christian majority if you will. I don't believe Hearts and Minds should begin and end in Afghanistan, but should extend all the way back here. Show positive messages of what is being done of specific interest to the Islamic community , counter the leafleters , cafe and street corner preachers by showing positive and verifiable imagery of the good we are doing for their fellows.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the majority of the community have their reservations about what Afghanistan is really about , and there is some hostility as a result. Whether that hostility transforms itself into a quantitative and constant threat is another question.

    That said, the funeral of Jabron Hashimi was very well attended here, with deep respect in the community for what he had died doing.

    We seriously need to get the message out there. There will be some who will never believe and will always be opposed , but there are many others who just want to get on with their lives, and they are crying out for positive, nationally accepted role models of British Islam as Jabron was.