Minibus Rules

#1
I have been tasked to sort out some Cat D / D1 licence courses and was pleased to find out that you can drive a minibus on a car licence.

Before you doubt me have a look at the DVLA Minibus rules (thankyou to the bored WO2 who found this last night!). In short the rules are someone may drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats provided the following conditions are met:

i. the vehicle is used for social purposes by a non-commercial body but not for hire or reward
ii. the driver is aged 21
iii. the driver has held a car (category B) licence for at least 2 years
iv. the driver is providing the service on a voluntary basis
v. the minibus maximum weight is not more than 3.5 tonnes or 4.25 tonnes including any specialist equipment for the carriage of disabled passengers
vi. if the driver is aged 70 or over, is able to meet the health standards for driving a D1 vehicle

At last we could have Cpls', Sgts' and Offrs' Mess functions and have soldiers drive, we could send people out in a minibus without having their Tp/Pl SNCO driving while all of the crows are getting their fat heads down.

Alas no. I discover the MoD will not support the change in rules (probably due to the first point about being for social purposes). Those personnel with 'grandfather' rights will continue to get clobbered for minibus driving tasks.

I have always found it a little strange that we can get an 18 year old a Cat C+E licence and send them out on the open road in a DROPS train, CST, GST, Tk Tptr let alone armoured vehicles. That individual can drive a transit van on a Cat B licence. After driving a 4/6T for a year they will be eligible to drive a TCV with up to 20 passengers (I know it's less for the TCVES) yet we still can't let them drive a minibus, probably a transit, with windows and a damned site easier to drive than other vehicles!
 
#2
You are quite right - and the speed limits make it even more confusing.
When I drive a school minibus down here in darkest Kentistan on a two lane M2, I can legally drive 10mph faster than is allowed on the three lane A2 - which is a much better as well as 50% wider road.
 
#4
Never had a problem with it...if its ED pay that's causing the problem then give the lads a long weekend in lieu of ED pay?
Treat this as time of to rest, not as a reward and bob's your uncle!
 
#5
Exacually goon _bde, what we have always done. Or anyone who has been 'naughty' could always 'volenteer' :wink:
 
#6
heidtheba said:
Exacually goon _bde, what we have always done. Or anyone who has been 'naughty' could always 'volenteer' :wink:
Precisely. Time off in lieu is the way ahead. It isn't payment or reward for the driving of the vehicle it is repayment of the time on duty.
 
#10
saladdoger said:
OR drivers that are over 70.
Thought that was the TA
 
#11
I suppose technically it could be argued that because we are paid 365 days a year, any time spent behind the wheel will always be "for reward".
As for the MOD getting these kind of things sorted out :D They just make everything harder than it has to be.....
 
#12
It was common place in BFG to only have 9 seater 'mini-buses' as they are exempt the D1 drivel.

Clearly you can't lift as many people in one go, but my experience of mil tpt for dinner nights etc has always been that the tpt does numerous shuffles throughout the evening witth only a few pax on each lift?

My experience of mini-buses in the UK has always been that they are 15 seaters, don't know why the difference, but could be a solution to only request MPV / 9 seaters on spot hires, or if they are a PRI regt owned minibus, take some seats out on the justification to convert for extra luggage space...an MD or othersuch spotter may advise that its illegal...so worth checking first!
 
#13
goon_bde said:
It was common place in BFG to only have 9 seater 'mini-buses' as they are exempt the D1 drivel.

Clearly you can't lift as many people in one go, but my experience of mil tpt for dinner nights etc has always been that the tpt does numerous shuffles throughout the evening witth only a few pax on each lift?

My experience of mini-buses in the UK has always been that they are 15 seaters, don't know why the difference, but could be a solution to only request MPV / 9 seaters on spot hires, or if they are a PRI regt owned minibus, take some seats out on the justification to convert for extra luggage space...an MD or othersuch spotter may advise that its illegal...so worth checking first!
It still is common place. Solves alot of problems (and they are fcuking quick :wink: ).
 
#14
heidtheba said:
goon_bde said:
It was common place in BFG to only have 9 seater 'mini-buses' as they are exempt the D1 drivel.

...............
It still is common place. Solves alot of problems (and they are fcuking quick :wink: ).
This was also my experience in BFG. It is also going to be the solution I suggest in my area (back in the UK). The Regt has 2 16 seater minibuses as part of its whitefleet entitlement. However my experience has rarely seen these filled to capacity. Indeed holding 3 9 seater MPVs would allow greater flexibility without worrying about who is going to drive them, yet when a minibus is needed it can be spot hired for the task.
 
#15
Horridlittleman said:
At last we could have Cpls', Sgts' and Offrs' Mess functions and have soldiers drive, we could send people out in a minibus without having their Tp/Pl SNCO driving while all of the crows are getting their fat heads down.
Problem - getting a junior rank to volunteer for the task, if you order them for a social event, this could be awkward both legally and militarily (not too sure on QRs on this).

Best answer: get one of your own mob to volunteer to be designated driver, he/she goes without the falling down water for one ocassion, someone else does it next time.
 
#16
CCF_CI said:
Horridlittleman said:
At last we could have Cpls', Sgts' and Offrs' Mess functions and have soldiers drive, we could send people out in a minibus without having their Tp/Pl SNCO driving while all of the crows are getting their fat heads down.
Problem - getting a junior rank to volunteer for the task, if you order them for a social event, this could be awkward both legally and militarily (not too sure on QRs on this).

Best answer: get one of your own mob to volunteer to be designated driver, he/she goes without the falling down water for one ocassion, someone else does it next time.
Bone Answer: get one of your own mob to pay for a ticket to go to a function in his own mess. Then make him drive around the disparate patches and collect others mess members at the start. Then have them on call from midnight until 2 to drive other people home when they want to. That would really work well. :roll:
 
#17
CCF_CI said:
Horridlittleman said:
At last we could have Cpls', Sgts' and Offrs' Mess functions and have soldiers drive, we could send people out in a minibus without having their Tp/Pl SNCO driving while all of the crows are getting their fat heads down.
Problem - getting a junior rank to volunteer for the task, if you order them for a social event, this could be awkward both legally and militarily (not too sure on QRs on this).

Best answer: get one of your own mob to volunteer to be designated driver, he/she goes without the falling down water for one ocassion, someone else does it next time.
Sh1te answer: See above
 
#18
Had the same problem when trying to book D1 courses.

Its a bit of a grey area concerning the "Not for hire or reward". That automatically makes you think it refers to taxi driving etc.. So I contacted the DVLA and they explained that if you are serving in the Forces, you're grandfather rights DO NOT qualify you to drive minibuses over 9 seats, because you are still being paid by the MOD at the time of driving (24/7), and this invalidates the licence.

Its exactly the same for teachers / social workers. If they have the grandfather rights of D1, and they volunteer to drive a minibus full of kids on an outing (even though they are getting nothing extra for it), they are doing so illegally, because they are still being paid for being a teacher / social worker.

Basically they told me the only way about it is that if you have the D1 grandfather rights, and have a minibus, you can drive your family on a holiday road trip. Any other circumstances require the full D1 test to be done.

Hope this helps.
 
#19
Danny_Dravot said:
Never had a problem with it...if its ED pay that's causing the problem then give the lads a long weekend in lieu of ED pay?
Treat this as time of to rest, not as a reward and bob's your uncle!
It's still a reward because an extra long weekend would be paid time off in lieu.
 
#20
Horridlittleman said:
heidtheba said:
Exacually goon _bde, what we have always done. Or anyone who has been 'naughty' could always 'volenteer' :wink:
Precisely. Time off in lieu is the way ahead. It isn't payment or reward for the driving of the vehicle it is repayment of the time on duty.
And if he's driving it on duty he can't be driving it socially at the same time.
 

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