Mine strike in Western Sahara/Southern Morocco

Dread

LE
Can anyone identify this landmine?

I'm guessing Russian from late '70s to early '80s. I'm curious as it blew the engine off a truck a couple of days ago in southern Morocco in a region that I'll be driving through (off road) on my way to Freetown in three weeks time.

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OneTenner

Old-Salt
They were very silly and very off-route, all the MSR's are clear & checked on a regular basis - i've driven through Western Sahara six times in the last fourteen years and had no issues provided you stay on the tracks and don't get adventurous. if the dust storms kick in, wait it out, look as far ahead as you can, don't move or go round anything blocking the track, go back until you've been passed and follow them at a distance. Oh, keep a few 'petit cadeau's' visible for the local rozzers / bandits, keep photocopies of your passport and itinerary with local phone numbers to give out to anyone who looks entitled to ask to see them and make sure you keep a small amount of cash with you, the large amount stashed somewhere non-obvious, I always took a satphone but most of it should have a GSM signal. Have a look at Horizons Unlimited - The HUBB for latest info & maybe think about coinciding your trip with others - strength in numbers and all that!
 
TM46 or 57?

(presuming this is Souther Morocco AKA Western Sahara...)
Western Sahara has lots of info/resources, but not much progress
Mine Ban Policy | Reports | Monitor
 
What’s more interesting for me is the back story

Firstly, that mine appears to be BEHIND the front right hand wheel (judging by the alignment of the door hinges). The damage appears to be under the front left hand wheel.

So it would appear that the car actually passed over this one without detonating it, only to strike something else a fraction of a second later.

What made them decide to excavate there to uncover it, because hopefully if it had already been uncovered they wouldn’t have driven over it?

The damage to the vehicle isn’t that bad for a mine of that size. Maybe it was only a partial detonation?

Is there any word on the condition of the occupants?

Where was it, in relation to any known contamination?

Did anyone report it to the mine action people there? Mines are gregarious chaps...
 
TM46 or 57?

(presuming this is Souther Morocco AKA Western Sahara...)
Western Sahara has lots of info/resources, but not much progress
Mine Ban Policy | Reports | Monitor
It appears to be an American M-15 mine. The fuze shape is wrong for a TM 46.


 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
From what I remember, if it's an AT, a landy is unlikely to set it off as they require about 180kg, the ground pressure of a 110 cab would be about 30kg per square inch of ground contact (sorry for the mixed units!), not withstanding that, would it be possible that the dust and grit would inhibit the pressure plate?
TM46 were also made in Egypt and didn't have a great reputation for QC....
 
From what I remember, if it's an AT, a landy is unlikely to set it off as they require about 180kg, the ground pressure of a 110 cab would be about 30kg per square inch of ground contact (sorry for the mixed units!), not withstanding that, would it be possible that the dust and grit would inhibit the pressure plate?
TM46 were also made in Egypt and didn't have a great reputation for QC....

Yes you’re right about AT mines requiring a bit of weight, but that’s primarily to stop them being set off by individual soldiers. And in many cases the ground bearing pressure of a tank on flattish ground is less than an overloaded land cruiser. So I wouldn’t risk it.

There was a Danish merc jeep in Bosnia that set off an AT mine. It was scrap afterwards. I have a very grainy picture somewhere.

Could be all sorts of explanations, like someone not arming the fuze.

And it’s not a TM46. The fuze is wrong :)
 

OneTenner

Old-Salt
Yes you’re right about AT mines requiring a bit of weight, but that’s primarily to stop them being set off by individual soldiers. And in many cases the ground bearing pressure of a tank on flattish ground is less than an overloaded land cruiser. So I wouldn’t risk it.

There was a Danish merc jeep in Bosnia that set off an AT mine. It was scrap afterwards. I have a very grainy picture somewhere.

Could be all sorts of explanations, like someone not arming the fuze.

And it’s not a TM46. The fuze is wrong :)
Yer, sorry - was typing that and getting a fresh beer whilst your reply was posted - the M15 has a pressure range, is that adjustable or set when manufactured? Obviously the photo shows the mine that didn't take the front end off the landy but i'd have thought an M15 (~10kg?) would have penetrated into the cab more than the photo suggests?
 
In my expert option that looks like a big mine.

Hope this helps.
 
Yer, sorry - was typing that and getting a fresh beer whilst your reply was posted - the M15 has a pressure range, is that adjustable or set when manufactured? Obviously the photo shows the mine that didn't take the front end off the landy but i'd have thought an M15 (~10kg?) would have penetrated into the cab more than the photo suggests?
Yes I’d expect more damage from a ‘very big mine’ :)

It might be an M6, which is the obsolete version of the M15. They take similar fuzes and have a similar arming switch on the top (which is the primary recognition feature). They have the same diameter but the M6 has about half the NEQ. That’s more in line with the comparatively small amount of damage.
 
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It appears to be an American M-15 mine. The fuze shape is wrong for a TM 46.


Maybe more likely Moroccan than Polisaro/Algerian?
Though link below suggest maybe even a French leftover!
 
From what I remember, if it's an AT, a landy is unlikely to set it off as they require about 180kg, the ground pressure of a 110 cab would be about 30kg per square inch of ground contact (sorry for the mixed units!), not withstanding that, would it be possible that the dust and grit would inhibit the pressure plate?
TM46 were also made in Egypt and didn't have a great reputation for QC....
Old stories from the 1970ies in Rhodesia. The terrs used to plant mines all over the place, one time some poor African riding a bike went over a TM46 , rumor was that the mine had a MUV or VPF fuze . Poor bugger hit the fuse and was vaporized.

Also the FAF or forward air fields , basically an air strip in the bush. One light plane landing hit a TM46. One less aircraft.
 
Old stories from the 1970ies in Rhodesia. The terrs used to plant mines all over the place, one time some poor African riding a bike went over a TM46 , rumor was that the mine had a MUV or VPF fuze . Poor bugger hit the fuse and was vaporized.

Also the FAF or forward air fields , basically an air strip in the bush. One light plane landing hit a TM46. One less aircraft.
I could get all train spottery about TM-46 and MUV, but I’m still enjoying the pics of the M6/M15...:)
 
From what I remember, if it's an AT, a landy is unlikely to set it off as they require about 180kg, the ground pressure of a 110 cab would be about 30kg per square inch of ground contact (sorry for the mixed units!), not withstanding that, would it be possible that the dust and grit would inhibit the pressure plate?
TM46 were also made in Egypt and didn't have a great reputation for QC....
A LR will certainly set of an A/T mine, well, a TM46 anyway. I've seen it happen.

E2A: a TM46 did this:

003a.jpg
 
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Yes you’re right about AT mines requiring a bit of weight, but that’s primarily to stop them being set off by individual soldiers. And in many cases the ground bearing pressure of a tank on flattish ground is less than an overloaded land cruiser. So I wouldn’t risk it.

There was a Danish merc jeep in Bosnia that set off an AT mine. It was scrap afterwards. I have a very grainy picture somewhere.

Could be all sorts of explanations, like someone not arming the fuze.

And it’s not a TM46. The fuze is wrong :)
Bit of a side issue, but I recall in training, one of the 59 full screws said despite AT mines requiring a lot of weight to set them off, he wouldn't have fancied his chances walking over one in full kit.
 

Dread

LE
A further couple of videos:
What is scary is that they know they're in a minefield, and they're just wandering around filming the mines that they can see, without any thought of mines they can't see. Truly inshallah!
 
A further couple of videos:
What is scary is that they know they're in a minefield, and they're just wandering around filming the mines that they can see, without any thought of mines they can't see. Truly inshallah!
Er, yes...

Unfortunately I can’t see the video as I don’t use FB.

However you could point them towards this as it provides excellent advice on what to do if (when) they step on a mine:

 

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