millitary hospital wing

#1
After seeing the news yesterday it seems that the MPs have realised that perhaps sharing wards with soldiers returning from op's etc with certain communitys of birmingham aint such a great idea after a military patient was attacked!! :roll: who would of thought that :)

Any one else think its time for a dedicated military ward at least if not the return of a military hospital
 
#4
Who do the Army think they are demanding private medical care. You join the Army volunterily. You know the facts and war is part of life. The Fire service, Ambulance service, Police etc dont get it why should the Army. You'r only 100000 strong smaller than BT. I could understand it if it was conscription. Surely putting injured perople in the best ward ie head injuries to head specialist ward etc is better than getting second rate treatment but having a mate im DPM PJ's next to you on a general ward.

Go on simpleton say it-**** off civvie bastard. I suppose in you simple mind thats a argument won.
 
#6
Devils_Kin said:
Media bull apparently. Spoke to someone in the know and no such incident happened.
What proof of this do you have?

Then again, you told us before that the facilities for relatives at RCDM were good, which is palpable nonsense.

At one of the MDHUs there have been regular episodes of uniofrmed military staff being harangued by members of the local islamic population - I know this to be true because it happened to me. I see no reason why such an incident should not occur at a hospital in one of the major centres of islamic population in the UK.


The issue of mixed wards is a red herring - military hospitals in UK always had them. What is an issue is security; in the military hospitals access could be controlled. Also, the vast majority of civilians do not understand the military, and are unable to relate to what soldiers may have been through.

Smithy is correct in that the principal consideration is the clinical care. However, much could be done to improve the way this is delivered at RCDM.
 
#7
ViroBono said:
Devils_Kin said:
Media bull apparently. Spoke to someone in the know and no such incident happened.
What proof of this do you have?

Then again, you told us before that the facilities for relatives at RCDM were good, which is palpable nonsense.

At one of the MDHUs there have been regular episodes of uniofrmed military staff being harangued by members of the local islamic population - I know this to be true because it happened to me. I see no reason why such an incident should not occur at a hospital in one of the major centres of islamic population in the UK.


The issue of mixed wards is a red herring - military hospitals in UK always had them. What is an issue is security; in the military hospitals access could be controlled. Also, the vast majority of civilians do not understand the military, and are unable to relate to what soldiers may have been through.

Smithy is correct in that the principal consideration is the clinical care. However, much could be done to improve the way this is delivered at RCDM.

The reason I know this did not happen was due to the fact that I spoke to the service police man of the unit and a number of people who work on that ward.
 
#8
Damn right we need a seperate medical service, the shit thing is we had one. One that was pretty good.
We need a dedicated mil/hosp and why not let it be the currently open Haslar or the old CMH in Aldershot.
The special convenant that the general spoke of is at threat if the soldiers so easily sacrificed are not cared for sufficiently.
This is after all the 21st Century, with time things are suppose to get better not worse.

paraodp444 said:
After seeing the news yesterday it seems that the MPs have realised that perhaps sharing wards with soldiers returning from op's etc with certain communitys of birmingham aint such a great idea after a military patient was attacked!! :roll: who would of thought that :)

Any one else think its time for a dedicated military ward at least if not the return of a military hospital
 
#9
Yeah, because civvie Dotors know tons about PTSD and blast and gun shot wounds not!!
Try a trip to the Haslar Hospital in Gosport, there you will learn how advanced they are in plastic surgery techniques perfected from lessons learnt in the Falklands.
The government wants to shut this hospital, and by not letting Soldiers injured over seas go there it claims there is not need for it.
Meanwhile our troops are sent all over the country to beg borrow a bed place.
Before the mental health units were shut in catterick, they were leaders in the treatment of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
I have a process for you to engage Smithy:
Pause Press Talk.

smithy749 said:
Who do the Army think they are demanding private medical care. You join the Army volunterily. You know the facts and war is part of life. The Fire service, Ambulance service, Police etc dont get it why should the Army. You'r only 100000 strong smaller than BT. I could understand it if it was conscription. Surely putting injured perople in the best ward ie head injuries to head specialist ward etc is better than getting second rate treatment but having a mate im DPM PJ's next to you on a general ward.

Go on simpleton say it-* off civvie fatherless. I suppose in you simple mind thats a argument won.
 
#10
I think sometimes we keep looking back. We used to have SLR's etc but things move on, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. I fully appreciate Mil Hosp exsisted and were great. The Army was large and to a certain degree they were a legacy from the 2nd WW and conscription when we were duty bound to provide.
These days the Army is small. (BT have more people working from home than is in the Army). I accept in the last 10 years we have faced a new enemy and suffered an increase in casualties. What I cant understand is why you want a private Hospital. Thats what you are after.
Surely what you want is the best care for each individual dependant on the injuries and only the NHS can offer that. ( Im not getting into an NHS argument) What Im saying is if the NHS functioned as the government hoped it would offer all the services required.
It would take a huge amount of money to build and fully man a hospital that offered every type of treatment you are suggesting and therfore it is in practicle.
Polititians cant react to hysteria. Yes weve had a number of injuries but the fact is we will not be at war for ever. The Army isnt held in the same regard as it was years ago. Civvies dont have fathers and brother called up any more. Its voluntary and just another business/organisation. Up until recently the Army was well down on the list of dangerous occupations.
The construction industry has 70 people die each year. A hell of a lot more tha the Army has whilst underataking work.
You completely disregarded the fire service who face life and death situations all the time.
Get away from hysteria, sit back and make measured judgement and I think you will come up with what the Government of the day have provided.
 
#11
Devils_Kin said:
The reason I know this did not happen was due to the fact that I spoke to the service police man of the unit and a number of people who work on that ward.
So, just hearsay and not proof, then. None of the reports of this incident have stated that it was reported to anyone at the time, so the unit service policeman and some ward staff being unaware of it shows nothing.

I confess I find it somewhat worrying that security is vested in just one service policeman. On the other hand I'm sure the MOD are happy to have such loyal employees as you.
 

engr172

Old-Salt
Book Reviewer
#12
smithy749 said:
I
These days the Army is small. (BT have more people working from home than is in the Army). I accept in the last 10 years we have faced a new enemy and suffered an increase in casualties. What I cant understand is why you want a private Hospital. Thats what you are after.
quote]

Smithy749, you are not only an Oxygen thief, you are a complete cnut..It is a known fact the majority of fire calls are NOT life endangering to the point of being pinned down in a patrol base in Afghanistan. Grow up and stop trying to get a rise off people on here, you little toad.....

and yes, I do work for BT
 
#13
ViroBono said:
Devils_Kin said:
The reason I know this did not happen was due to the fact that I spoke to the service police man of the unit and a number of people who work on that ward.
So, just hearsay and not proof, then. None of the reports of this incident have stated that it was reported to anyone at the time, so the unit service policeman and some ward staff being unaware of it shows nothing.

I confess I find it somewhat worrying that security is vested in just one service policeman. On the other hand I'm sure the MOD are happy to have such loyal employees as you.
ViroBono you sound a bitter and twisted. Im not saying things are perfect but it isn't the worst it could be.

When the issue arose the incident was investigated and it was found to have been made up by the media. security is not just run by one service police man. West midlands police have two police men at the hospital at all times. The RMP are with in ear shot if needed. There are also protcols in place for such incidents and they have been proven to have worked.
 
#14
nip-boy said:
Smithy : Quote
The Fire service, Ambulance service, Police etc dont get it
A lot of the constabularies do have a private medical scheme. The Essex and met did certainly have when I was with them.
And a number of Police Convalescent homes, catering for all regions of the UK. Why no equivalent charitable institutions for convalescing HM Forces patients? Because there was never any need: provision was built into the system.
 
#15
Devils_Kin said:
ViroBono said:
Devils_Kin said:
The reason I know this did not happen was due to the fact that I spoke to the service police man of the unit and a number of people who work on that ward.
So, just hearsay and not proof, then. None of the reports of this incident have stated that it was reported to anyone at the time, so the unit service policeman and some ward staff being unaware of it shows nothing.

I confess I find it somewhat worrying that security is vested in just one service policeman. On the other hand I'm sure the MOD are happy to have such loyal employees as you.
ViroBono you sound a bitter and twisted. Im not saying things are perfect but it isn't the worst it could be.

When the issue arose the incident was investigated and it was found to have been made up by the media. security is not just run by one service police man. West midlands police have two police men at the hospital at all times. The RMP are with in ear shot if needed. There are also protcols in place for such incidents and they have been proven to have worked.
Not bitter and twisted at all - just concerned that MOD and the Trust do not seem to take security particularly seriously. Whether the incident described happened or not actually doesn't matter; the potential for this sort of thing to happen remains because there is no conrol of access - two or three policemen at Selly Oak are unlikely to be able to act quickly, especially if an incident occurs at one of the other sites used by RCDM. Who's to say a member of NHS staff couldn't cause problems (as occasionally happens in NI) - they aren't vetted at all. I don't think anyone doubts that Selly Oak offers as good a standard of clinical services as anywhere else in the NHS, but the fact remains that a good deal could be done to improve the service provided to military personnel.
 
#16
Due to OPSEC / PERSEC I can’t comment as fully as I would like to about this incident regarding the solider and the local Muslim man apart to say that words were spoken between the two. The story told by the media was a complete exacerbation of the incident if you can call it that.

Security always will and always has been a problem regarding hospitals, any body can enter them, it’s the nature of a hospital. Even Haslar with its razor wire walls and gate post will still let any Joe into the grounds, how would you control access into one of the largest hospitals within the UK? The service police at Selly Oak work extremely closely with West Mid Police and Special Branch as well as the hospitals own security team who are all easily contacted if and when needed.

Dedicated military RUN and MANAGED wards are in place at MDHU(N) and MDHU(FP) to name two. These wards however have civilian heath care professionals working within them so if a member of staff wanted to cause problems then they could and they look after civilian patients so they or their relatives could cause problems if they wanted. In a hospital, a bed is a bed and that means if a patient with specific needs requires a bed on a specific ward then they get it be they military OR civilian and if this means putting one of our on in the best place and it’s not a military run ward then that’s what happens. Would you prefer that a badly burnt solider goes onto the military orthopaedic ward because he’s military or into one of the 5 UK regional burn centre civilian run burn wards? I know where I would like to be.

Yes I would like to see military patients looked after amongst their own as they respond well and the banter can be excellent especially as they encourage each other to get back on form as quickly as possible, however, if they are not in the best place suited to their condition only then, can we complain about the care being provided.
 
#17
O2 Thief Smithy749 wrote

BT have more people working from home than is in the Army). I accept in the last 10 years we have faced a new enemy and suffered an increase in casualties.
Are Telewest dicking BT then?

Concur on engr172's view of Trumpton. Not the same thing. When a Fireman loses his or her life in the line of duty it is national news for days. Think, Station Officer at Kings Cross (1988?). Fire isn't a sentient being trying to kill a fireman. The risks firemen face are easier to mitigate than those faced by service personnel in hostile territory. And if Hugh, Pugh, Barny, McGrew etc. are injured in the line of duty, well, they are not thousands of miles from a 'proper' hosptal, their family and friends. And fires will not spring up in hospital ranting that 'you firemen are putting out my brother fires'. :roll:

Military Hospitals are a necessity. Civvy casualties are welcome.
 
#18
I don't think it's hysteria but simply a need.
You say the construction industry have 70 die a year much more then the Army.
Have you considered how mnay Army, Navy and Airforce (total well in excess of 250000) die in a year.
It's worth while remebering that the majority of deaths in the services are down to road traffic accidents. Consider trainging deaths (a guy was crushed by a tank recently) and you must surely be well over the 70 mark you mention.
Then consider the burns victims, fractures, gun shots, blast injuries, amputees, plastic surgery, and mental health issues. Then tell me how they can be swallowed up into an nhs system which will cancel your appointment/operation to get someone else in to make up the figures in a specific field.
And if you don't think this happens, can imagine they have a quota of military they have to reach as they do, say, hip ops? I would think not.
The main job (if poss) would be to get the military men and women fit to redeploy, and that is the main reason military personnel should get their own medical system.

smithy749 said:
I think sometimes we keep looking back. We used to have SLR's etc but things move on, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. I fully appreciate Mil Hosp exsisted and were great. The Army was large and to a certain degree they were a legacy from the 2nd WW and conscription when we were duty bound to provide.
These days the Army is small. (BT have more people working from home than is in the Army). I accept in the last 10 years we have faced a new enemy and suffered an increase in casualties. What I cant understand is why you want a private Hospital. Thats what you are after.
Surely what you want is the best care for each individual dependant on the injuries and only the NHS can offer that. ( Im not getting into an NHS argument) What Im saying is if the NHS functioned as the government hoped it would offer all the services required.
It would take a huge amount of money to build and fully man a hospital that offered every type of treatment you are suggesting and therfore it is in practicle.
Polititians cant react to hysteria. Yes weve had a number of injuries but the fact is we will not be at war for ever. The Army isnt held in the same regard as it was years ago. Civvies dont have fathers and brother called up any more. Its voluntary and just another business/organisation. Up until recently the Army was well down on the list of dangerous occupations.
The construction industry has 70 people die each year. A hell of a lot more tha the Army has whilst underataking work.
You completely disregarded the fire service who face life and death situations all the time.
Get away from hysteria, sit back and make measured judgement and I think you will come up with what the Government of the day have provided.
 
#19
ViroBono said:
Devils_Kin said:
ViroBono said:
Devils_Kin said:
The reason I know this did not happen was due to the fact that I spoke to the service police man of the unit and a number of people who work on that ward.
So, just hearsay and not proof, then. None of the reports of this incident have stated that it was reported to anyone at the time, so the unit service policeman and some ward staff being unaware of it shows nothing.

I confess I find it somewhat worrying that security is vested in just one service policeman. On the other hand I'm sure the MOD are happy to have such loyal employees as you.
ViroBono you sound a bitter and twisted. Im not saying things are perfect but it isn't the worst it could be.

When the issue arose the incident was investigated and it was found to have been made up by the media. security is not just run by one service police man. West midlands police have two police men at the hospital at all times. The RMP are with in ear shot if needed. There are also protcols in place for such incidents and they have been proven to have worked.
Not bitter and twisted at all - just concerned that MOD and the Trust do not seem to take security particularly seriously. Whether the incident described happened or not actually doesn't matter; the potential for this sort of thing to happen remains because there is no conrol of access - two or three policemen at Selly Oak are unlikely to be able to act quickly, especially if an incident occurs at one of the other sites used by RCDM. Who's to say a member of NHS staff couldn't cause problems (as occasionally happens in NI) - they aren't vetted at all. I don't think anyone doubts that Selly Oak offers as good a standard of clinical services as anywhere else in the NHS, but the fact remains that a good deal could be done to improve the service provided to military personnel.
Fair one!
 
#20
I don't think it's hysteria but simply a need.
You say the construction industry have 70 die a year much more then the Army.
Have you considered how mnay Army, Navy and Airforce (total well in excess of 250000) die in a year.
It's worth while remebering that the majority of deaths in the services are down to road traffic accidents. Consider trainging deaths (a guy was crushed by a tank recently) and you must surely be well over the 70 mark you mention.
Then consider the burns victims, fractures, gun shots, blast injuries, amputees, plastic surgery, and mental health issues. Then tell me how they can be swallowed up into an nhs system which will cancel your appointment/operation to get someone else in to make up the figures in a specific field.And if you don't think this happens, can imagine they have a quota of military they have to reach as they do, say, hip ops? I would think not. ShiteThe main job (if poss) would be to get the military men and women fit to redeploy, and that is the main reason military personnel should get their own medical system
Having just read the quote- Shite springs to mind. When I say 70 pers die in the construction industry that means die whilst at work. Pers in the construction industry are also involved in traffic accidents but that is not an occupational hazard. Someone in the Army driving home isn't work related.
The remainder of your post is pure speculation. Come back with fact. Have a look on the HSE website, ILO or something similar and present fact not shite.
What is it about you lot that thinks you should be at the front of the NHS waiting list. Why should a poxy private injured in a rugby game be in the surgeons office before me. Why are you more important than a copper. I would rather have a copper on the beat than you back on the rugby park. As I would rather have a fireman at the Bunsfield oil disaster rather than you on 6 weeks leave, wed afternoon off, Fri afternoon off.
Know your place in society in the main your lowly qualified' unskilled workers. Fact. The Army recruits from inner city areas and looks for people who they can train to live in holes, for weeks on end and kill people.
Your a large company that commands very little attention to the average civvie. respected for the role you undertake and thankful for supressing the evil within the world. But nothing more.
Have a look at the countries defence budget and they(Government) think exactly the same. Very small these days.
Face it Mil Hosp are gone forever. I suspect the one in NI will disapear in the not to distant future.
 

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