Millibean suggests giving us a vote on EU membership

#1
#3
Weren't we promised this before?
No we were promised a vote on the EU Constitution, which was subsequently renamed the Lisbon Treaty in order to sidestep the inconvenience of letting the public have a say.

This is a proposal for an in/out referendum, which we've not had since 1975. The EU today is a very different beast from the old ECC or whatever it was called.
 
#4
He can promise to give everyone in the land free money and a bottle of elixir of youth whilst he is in opposition. Watch it all vanish like the morning mist or the wording change to the extent that it becomes meaningless if he ever becomes PM.
 
#5
I take what any politician says with a large pinch of salt. All parties promise what the electorate want to hear in the hope of being elected only to do a complete u-turn afterwards.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
yep - tories saying they might put it in their 2015 manifesto and ed ball saying no reason why we couldnt have a vote in the next 10 years.

despite current polls putting 60% of the polled public wanting out of the eu just like most of the rest of the eu countries because we think its shit.

but of course that wouldnt be in the public interest would it - voting for the ending of a non democratic policy union.
 
#7
If anyone truly believes what a politician tells them could you PM me.
I have some really great deals on real estate in Florida you will be interested in.
 
#9
#10
Laboor 14 points ahead in the polls. They have made their own voting clique of spongers scroungers and no marks.
 
#11
Bare with me now, but there's just a small possibility that the politician's lying.
 
#12
Laboor 14 points ahead in the polls. They have made their own voting clique of spongers scroungers and no marks.
It's amazing how they sober up once every five years for long enough to stumble down to the nearest ballot box and cough up enough blood to put a red mark next to the red candidate.

Never ceases to amaze me.
 
#13
The only way they will give the vote is if the EU is crumbling anyway. If the next set of elections in Greece go the wrong way (from a Euro stand point) it is a very distinct possibility that more countries would be in a position reconsider their membership of the EU, especially if Greece do not immediately go belly up after jumping ship
 
M

Mr_Tigger

Guest
#14
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

I am not buying what you have to sell Mr Millibean.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#15
It might prompt the Tories to go down the same route for two reasons:

-- To prevent Labour having sole ownership of a popular policy
-- To stop a haemorrhage of votes to UKP

The rather interesting result of politicians trying to play politics with this is that they might start a momentum for a referendum it would be difficult to halt.

From the UK POV, we would be better off exiting the EU while staying in a Europe wide trading area.

-- We gain £10 billion from no longer paying into EU coffers.
-- We junk crap like the Human Rights Act so we can fcuk off hook hand and his like sharpish
-- We get to have laws that suit the UK, not ones that are 'one size fits all' for the whole of Europe.
-- We get to junk a lot of useless EU inspired regulation.
-- We get to send back a lot of the 'benefit tourists' from EU countries who are exploiting our benefits system. (Big financial saving)
-- Etc

Its difficult to see a downside from exiting the EU and joining a Europe wide trading area.

Wordsmith
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
#16
No we were promised a vote on the EU Constitution, which was subsequently renamed the Lisbon Treaty in order to sidestep the inconvenience of letting the public have a say.

This is a proposal for an in/out referendum, which we've not had since 1975. The EU today is a very different beast from the old ECC or whatever it was called.
Isn't that what Cameron offered but changed his mind?
 
#17
Isn't that what Cameron offered but changed his mind?
Cameron offered a referendum on the Lisbon treaty subject to its not having been ratified by all EU member states prior to the election.

Treaty ratification in the UK is a crown prerogative so the executive does not actually need Parliamentary approval. Brown duly sent David Milliband off to sign the treaty on our behalf.
 
#18
-- We junk crap like the Human Rights Act so we can fcuk off hook hand and his like sharpish
The 'Uman Rights are nowt to do with the EU but derive from the European Convention, to which we would remain signatories even if we withdrew from the EU.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#19
It might prompt the Tories to go down the same route for two reasons:

-- To prevent Labour having sole ownership of a popular policy
-- To stop a haemorrhage of votes to UKP

The rather interesting result of politicians trying to play politics with this is that they might start a momentum for a referendum it would be difficult to halt.

From the UK POV, we would be better off exiting the EU while staying in a Europe wide trading area.

-- We gain £10 billion from no longer paying into EU coffers.
-- We junk crap like the Human Rights Act so we can fcuk off hook hand and his like sharpish
-- We get to have laws that suit the UK, not ones that are 'one size fits all' for the whole of Europe.
-- We get to junk a lot of useless EU inspired regulation.
-- We get to send back a lot of the 'benefit tourists' from EU countries who are exploiting our benefits system. (Big financial saving)
-- Etc

Its difficult to see a downside from exiting the EU and joining a Europe wide trading area.

Wordsmith
A referendum is something I have always hoped for, and a balanced weighing of the pros and cons for the UK.
At the very least it would educate people a bit on their generally ignorant perspective.

-- We gain £10 billion from no longer paying into EU coffers.
The development of the EU free market costs money, you want into that market you are going to pay something somehow...or you won't get access, nobody is going to get a free ride.
-- We junk crap like the Human Rights Act so we can fcuk off hook hand and his like sharpish
We pretty much invented it, so are not likely to drop it - especially as it has nothing to do with the EU.....it is simply a pre-condition of membership.
-- We get to have laws that suit the UK, not ones that are 'one size fits all' for the whole of Europe.
Why don't I feel safer already.....
-- We get to junk a lot of useless EU inspired regulation.
If you want access to the EU free market you will anyway have to comply with its regulation, just like the Swiss (who have to accept it without even getting a say on the matter).
-- We get to send back a lot of the 'benefit tourists' from EU countries who are exploiting our benefits system. (Big financial saving)
As that is a problem the UK has created for itself, that will not be cured either. The UK is not even a member of the Schengen agreement.
-- Etc

There is a discussion to be had, but unfortunately the gullible have been fed BS for so long they actually believe it. Given the importance and risk attached to our EU membership, governments try and stay away from the issue.
The problem is, a half in and half out situation is also not good - and Europe does not need a UK sized Switzerland.
 
#20
Could the military just not assume authority; in response to an attempt by Government to ignore the Political will of the public as expressed by their vote based on the manifesto and pre-conditions of election as laid out by the various political parties prior to the last General Election? Its fraud by any other name is it not?
 

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